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Posted by: daniel
You take a huge risk every time you get out of bed in the morning. There are absolutely risks in riding or driving or flying in anything that moves faster than you can walk. If you are of age (17-18) you are responsible for your actions. If you are underage your parents are guardians should make sure that you have proper training or equipment, I don't think the government has any business trying to lawyer up against the manufacturers. There are several other ways to get injured that probably have similiar numbers. Just sit wrapped in bubble wrap all day long, and your will be fine.
Posted by: LEP7MM
WASHINGTON — An estimated 740 people, a record, died in all-terrain vehicle accidents last year, the government said Thursday as it took a step toward oversight of the vehicles.
The estimated toll, which includes 470 documented cases, compares with an estimated 617 deaths in 2003, and estimates between 538 and 599 annual deaths in the previous three years, according to a report from the Consumer Product Safety Commission (search) Thursday.
Also, an all-time high of at least 136,100 people went to the hospital last year for injuries involving the four-wheel motorcycles that have a wide seat and low stand, and a third of those hurt were younger than 16.
In 2003, there were at least 125,500 injuries.
"We have a serious national epidemic in this country of people getting killed and injured in very large numbers when they ride ATVS," said Rachel Weintraub, director of product safety at the Consumer Federation of America (search).
The group is pushing for ATV regulation, especially for child use of the adult-sized vehicles.
The commission said it is considering putting in place federal rules for ATVs and is taking public comment for 60 days.
Posted by: LEP7MM
what really chaffs my ass about this is they neglected to mention the skyrocketing sales in proportion to the increase of accidents/fatalities. Safety training may be a huge factor in this as well. I said "may be" since no matter how much we educate some people, they will not change their riding habits. How many of these kids under the age of 16 that made up 30% of the fatalities had any form of accredited safety training?
Be sure in your replies that you keep your comments civil, diplomatic, factual, and to the point. Anything but only helps "their" cause and makes the rest of us look bad.
Posted by: LEP7MM
Black and Red,
I found that article on the Fox News website.
Thanks to everyone who dug into this further and got the facts. Let's hope the powers that be will fight this to the end. It's not the first time and it's not the last time we will see misleading information from these groups.
Overall, I believe the actual numbers of injuries or fatal accidents per number of new machines/new riders has dropped considerably in the past few years. The ONLY problem with this is, it's not good press.
XtemeSkier,
you're correct on our safety training. As of January 1, 2006, anyone born after July 1 1987 will need to be certified to ride on public lands and frozen waters. But anyone 10-11 years old can ride a machine 90cc or less on public lands/frozen waters "WITHOUT" safety training, but must be accompanied by an adult 18 or older who has a valid drivers license.
Posted by: LEP7MM
I stopped a guy a couple weeks ago (no, I'm not a Law Enforcement Officer). He was riding down a paved county road, then onto a state highway. As soon as he saw me behind him, he then crossed over to the wrong side of the road while doing close to 60. I went by and flagged him down.
Get this.....the first thing this moron says is "What's the problem"? That's all it took for all professionalism to fly out the window.
Posted by: LEP7MM
Thanks for replying Muddy.
The safety training is offered in 2 forms. First and foremost, there is the ASI (ATV Safety Institute) that the manufacturers support and help fund. ASI is the organization that will train people based on the age requirements set forth by the CPSC and the ATV manufacturers.
Secondly, is the state safety training that is usually offered by a certified instructor with your local DNR.
I am the latter. No matter who the training is from, be it from ASI or the DNR, it does help make a difference.
Posted by: LEP7MM
MUDDY,
I might even consider coming over to Michigan to sit through, (or assist if you wish), one of your DNR courses for a benchmarking venture. Let me know if you have anything in the spring of '06.
Posted by: MUDDY4LIFE
Certification would be handled by a certified ATV Safety Instructor..At the conclusion of your safety class,you'd receive a certificate of completion certificate.
Posted by: MUDDY4LIFE
Im actually BOTH..I am ASI certified and I am DNR certified thru the State of Michigan..The DNR just took over the ORV safety program from the Department of Education on Oct 1st of 2003 and they really SCREWED up the program.
The DNR went and certified 300 Police officers as licensed ATV safety Instructors with little or NO training,only the fact that they were police officers.I about had a FIT when I found this out.I actually sat thru a safety course put on by one of these generic instructors and it was PATHETIC at best..Your OWNERS manual gives you more safety info than what these clowns were instructing to our kids.
I made a presentation about these generic safety classes at our next ORV board meeting.This promted the DNR to get these classes straightend out.We still have a long ways to go,but I think we are finally headed in the right direction.
Posted by: BlackandRedWarrior
I wonder where they get this "estimated" versus documented deaths. They need to give hard numbers. Until you have hard numbers, you could be pulling them out of your @ss.
The increase of 2004 over 2003 was 20%. That's pretty substantial. Was there an increase of 20% the number of machines and/or riders year over year?
It would be interesting to see the stats on a state by state basis as well.
How do these stats compare to other modes of transportation? Bicycles, Motorcycles, Scooters, Skateboards, Rollerskates/Rollerblades and autos.
Posted by: BlackandRedWarrior
As a follow up, here's the actual report that started that article. It's 20 pages and I'll read it in a little bit (have an errand to do.)
To quickly boil your blood I direct you to page 5! The article is COMPLTELY misleading. The TOTAL of deaths EVER (going back to 1982 increased by 702! That's what...22 years! ACTUAL reported deaths DECREASED year over year 2003 to 2004 by 99!
One must always remember: "There are lies, damn lies, and statistics." -- Mark Twain (IIRC)
LEP: Where did you get that article? Looks like a short AP wireservice article.
Posted by: BlackandRedWarrior
Further followup...yeah...I actually did read it. Statistics aren't my thing though.
They make it seem like more and more people are being maimed more and more, however, the last line of the report says (page 14):
Quote
However, analysis has demonstrated that there is no statistically upward or downward trend in the risk of injury from 2001 to 2004 (the years for which the necessary data are available.)
One of the problems lies in the fact it takes 2 years to get all of the data. They then make estimates (using statistical wizardry) based on the total REPORTED.
Estimated deaths are hovering around 1.0 to 1.4 since 1999 when better reporting (ICD-10) started. 1.0 for '03 and 1.1 for '04. (per 10,000).
There was on statistic that REALLY stood out to me on page 5 (Table 2, Deaths by state).
Kentucky reported 106 <-- Anyone else think there might be an issue in this state?
West Virginia reported 93
Pennsylvania reported 84
North Carolina reported 77
Florida reported 71
Tennessee reported 58
California reported only 50 <-- Mandatory helmet law, size restrictions/safety cert. rarely enforced.
It would be interesting to see the the age breakdown by age for deaths and injuries. Deaths are only reported by state. Injuries aren't.
Posted by: raptorchick
You can send Ms. Weintraub your thoughts on this at rweintraub@cpsc.gov BR>
Posted by: Scootergptx
Quote
Originally posted by: ThrashAndCrashUntilItsTrash
This year...My wife and daughter both went to the ER for Tripping While WALKING, and got a sprain.....no one in the family got hurt while riding ATV's....So I think they need regulations on WALKING!!!!!!.............I think you get my point...img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif" border="0">hr>
I think you're on to something there. I seen people that couldn't walk, let alone operate any type of motorized vehicle.
Posted by: twentycharacters
Quote
How do these stats compare to other modes of transportation? Bicycles, Motorcycles, Scooters, Skateboards, Rollerskates/Rollerblades and autos.
i wondering this too...i garrantee you more people are injured and KILLED by motorcycles alone - but no one is pushing to ban them are they? how about cars? hundreds of thousands die by car every year...hey lets ban them!!! you know why, b/c they are under the DMV. The CPSC alone regulates atvs and household appliances (why should atvs be regulated by the same commission that regulates a refrig or an electric can opener?) they have no idea how to effectively regulate atvs. ATVs need to be moved under the DMV, and yes, have slighly stricter training laws for and those who ride them. i see too many people riding a machine they are not ready for, without safety gear, and drunk off their butts, with passengers, etc etc.
rachel whiner is just trying to make a name for herself and make something happen and make the cpsc look like its really on the consumer's side when all it is is just a gigantic red ink stain on our USA budget. they have to do and take on things to make them seem important but the thing with atvs isnt about public safety- its personal vindetta with ms whiner. some things the cpsc does is ok but to have atvs under them is a mistake. i agree with some regulation, but we cant go back to what they did to
3 wheelers back in the 80's and it pretty much killled the quad market for 10 years. just now with all the new machines coming out- we are where we should have been technology-wise in the 90's. we need some kind of good national, regional, local, and individual representation and unitedness even if some of us dont see eye to eye personally to make sure that they dont get their way this time.
we need honda, yamaha, suzuki, etc behind us just like the auto manufacturers lobby in washington for their crap, we need this kind of leverage as well.
just a suggestion, if you do send ms whiner an email, try to be intelligent in what you say and dont just stab at her - that will only make us look worse.
Posted by: motox26
I doubt the actual percentage's of riders getting killed is any higher, it is just that there is more riders in general these days, the sport has boomed here lately. The more riders, the more deaths.
Example, lets just say there are 100 riders and 5 die, that is 5%. Then next year we have 200 riders and 10 die, that is still 5%.
My best friend just died on a quad about 2 months ago, and me and the rest of my friends have not given up riding because of it. I mean it is either take a chance of getting killed on something we enjoy, or wait around being depressed until we get old and die naturally or maybe even die young anyways by another type of accident.
Speaking of depression, I think this is the best stress reliever there is! I have had a lot of things to be depressed over in my life but when I go do what I enjoy like ride it makes me have a clear head when I come home. They say America is full of depressed people, I say get them all riding!BR>
Posted by: ThrashAndCrashUntilItsTrash
This year...My wife and daughter both went to the ER for Tripping While WALKING, and got a sprain.....no one in the family got hurt while riding ATV's....So I think they need regulations on WALKING!!!!!!.............I think you get my point...img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif" border="0">
Posted by: MrDumass
My gosh! Doesn't the GOV have more things to worry about then what the public does for recreation? img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-disgusted.gif" border="0">
Posted by: XtremeSkier
well i heard around here, next year, the law is that if ur under 18 and dont have ATV safty that u cant ride a quad over 90cc's on public land!
thank god i got my ATV safty
Posted by: cr125predator
LEP- so when this certification goes into effect, will it be all over the US or just in specific states. Second, will you need them for dirt bikes too. Lastly where would you go to get this ATV certificate.
Posted by: garrett5462
Quote
Originally posted by: LEP7MM
WASHINGTON — An estimated 740 people, a record, died in all-terrain vehicle accidents last year, the government said Thursday as it took a step toward oversight of the vehicles.
The estimated toll, which includes 470 documented cases, compares with an estimated 617 deaths in 2003, and estimates between 538 and 599 annual deaths in the previous three years, according to a report from the Consumer Product Safety Commission (search) Thursday.
Also, an all-time high of at least 136,100 people went to the hospital last year for injuries involving the four-wheel motorcycles that have a wide seat and low stand, and a third of those hurt were younger than 16.
In 2003, there were at least 125,500 injuries.
"We have a serious national epidemic in this country of people getting killed and injured in very large numbers when they ride ATVS," said Rachel Weintraub, director of product safety at the Consumer Federation of America (search).
The group is pushing for ATV regulation, especially for child use of the adult-sized vehicles.
The commission said it is considering putting in place federal rules for ATVs and is taking public comment for 60 days.
wow thats a lot could u figure out what mass. is? was that at a website?
Posted by: HooPharted
the reason West Virginia's numbers were so highduring those years,was because they had passed a law that it was legal to ride ATV's on "secondary roads" as long as
1,,,,you were 18 years of age
2,,,,carried a VALID drivers license
3,,,,wear a helmet
4,,,,and had a head light,tail light,and brake light
this was a experiment to see if it would be in their interest to seek a new form of revenue for a untapped source,and it failed drastically,due to the underage riders abuse, the non compliance of helmets,the fact that law enforcement were not equiped to give chase,and the drastic over night increase in fatalitys
they have since recended the law,and it was during the years in question in this discussion
since then, the county Sherriff's office have aquired 7 various types of ATV's from drug seizures,and do use them
Posted by: codyormoe
What is killing us responsible, helmet wearing, safe ATV riders is the morons who wake up one day and think "Gee, I think I'll get a 4-wheeler". Then they get one and have NO IDEA what they are doing and crash.
Case in point.......earlier this week a friend of mine called me up, she had went out and bought a quad. I thought that was great, finally, a woman friend of mine to ride with, we made plans for her to come up so I could give her some pointers since she was new to quads. She shows up, with her girlfriend, said they were going to ride double, I have problems with that immediately(inexperienced and double, I don't think so). I offer the use of one of our quads so they can each ride one, give them the "it's not safe to ride double" speech. Then, and here's the killer, they inform me that "Oh yeah, we don't have any helmets". I tried to tell them how unsafe that was, blah blah, offer them a couple helmets to use, Nah, they don't want to get used to wearing them. "They want $100 for one helmet", seriously, that was their arguement for not wanting to buy helmets. Then they go on to tell me it's not a problem, they had been double riding with out helmets for a couple weeks now. I was speechless, then I wasn't. I went off, used words my kids probably didn't need to hear, but come on, how stupid can you get? They were so cavalier about it, I started lecturing, loudly, wondering what the f was wrong with them that they would spend $5000 on a quad but wouldnt' shell out a lousy f'in couple hundred for helmets. Needless to say we did not go riding and I doubt I'll be hearing from them again anytime soon. I told them not to bother coming back with that quad until they got a brain between them. It wasn't pretty, but on a positive note, I'm pretty sure my kids have no doubts what so ever how I feel about people riding with no helmets.
My point is.......it's these idiots that make us all look bad, and I refuse to condone that type of stupidity, no matter how good a friend.
They should seperate those "statistics" into two groups, those who were riding safely and responsibly and got killed, and those who weren't wearing helmets, were drunk, showing off or just plain had no idea what they were doing and got killed. Bet I know which group would comprise most of the deaths.
And for whoever asked about the death toll from ATV's in Mass, I bet it goes up by 2 pretty soon, unless my friend smartens the hell up real fast.
