Pages: 1
Posted by: nubbin
"The Consumer Product Safety Commission Show that 621 were killed in 2002 the most ever". "Figures for 2003 are incomplete". About 33% of the injured and dead since 1982 have been children under 16. It went on to say that young children don't have the cognitive skills, size or strength to safely drive these vehicles. The CPSC estimated 6.2 million atv's were in use in 2003. They did not say how many were alcohol related deaths. I would not stop riding because of these statistics. It all boils down to common sense. lol
Posted by: nubbin
No one deserves to die.
Posted by: ShadyRascal
In a nation of 300 million people, you can come up with statistics scary enough to ban anything. Bicycles, baseball bats, 5 gallon buckets, you name it, all have been involved in tragic deaths. People unfortunately are dumb enough to be whipped into a frenzy de jour, and it can end up in loss of freedoms.
Posted by: ShadyRascal
I have personally been injured worse than my ATV by:
Lawnmower
Barbed wire (multiple times)
a spring
sheet of particle board
the ground
the front half of a bull elk
I want this stuff controlled or I'm gonna sue someone!
Posted by: hondabuster
This is also a good example of how the media, manipulates the news. Why....when its something they are against, be it guns, atvs, motorcycles, personal watercraft, whatever...the headline has "killed in it. Why not "died"? Because killed implies that something bad was done to someone ( think murder). But it was actually an accident. Died is a bit more benign, and doesnt suffer from a negative connotation. Its a suttle form of propaganda by the anti crowd, to get mainstream americans to have negitive feelings for atvs.
Posted by: GlennJ
(Bangs head against wall)
This is pure crap. "Wow! Look how many people died! Most evar!!!!111"
Do you see how they "fudge" the numbers? Accidents increase as the number of ATVs out there increase! Imagine that! I'd be willing to bet there are more car accidents now than there were in say, 1950...
I really wish they'd to an honest comparison of ATV deaths vs number of ATVs riding around the country. That would give a true percentage of deaths vs number of machines. Now, I hate math, but this would not be that hard to accomplish. Simply stating the number of deaths increases shows nothing when you don't have a number of machines to compare it to.
Posted by: GlennJ
Here's another thing that article doesn't report: How they died. I remember posting some sites with ATV death statistics for one particular state. At LEAST 90% of these accidents were caused by- lack of safety gear, riding under the influence, riding with a passenger (or passengers) or a younger child on a machine that was too large for them.
Now, I'd like the CPSC to tell us how a lack of regard for BASIC riding safety equates to ATVs being dangerous. What they're doing would be like taking all the drunk driving death statistics and saying cars are deadly. For the 9 billionth time: It's not the machine, it's the rider!
Not to take a away from any of those who died in the least, but..... I'd be willing to bet if you took that 625 (an already skewed #) and made a ratio using the number of ATVs being ridden today, you'd still come out way under the ratio of motovehicle deaths per year. I honestly think you have a better chance of being hurt or killed in a motor vehicle accident than you do in an ATV accident.
Posted by: rescuediver
Don't know how it compares, as far as ratios. But it does give the "other side" the ammunition they need to try and kill our sport.
Here's the article link:
News article on 2002 atv accidents
And, Welcome to the forum
Posted by: rescuediver
TallTexun, Your WelcomeBR>
To post a link, go to the top of the "reply" screen and you will see under the "Message Text" where a "http" button is located. Click on the appropriate one, then, "paste" your link in there and hit "ok". Then, on the next box, type in what the link is, or however you want to address it. Then, hit the "ok" button again. Then walla, it should appear in your message. rescue
Posted by: rescuediver
Quote
Originally posted by: moldycheese
this is great, right here, "New estimates from the Consumer Product Safety Commission show that 621 people were killed in 2002, the most ever". but this is where it gets good, "Tim Buche, president of the Specialty Vehicle Institute of America, an industry group, touted statistics showing the injury rate among riders of four-wheel ATVs dipped an estimated 6 percent from 2001 to 2003". so, more people are dying because more people are riding, but the death to atv rider went down 6%?!?!?! whats wrong with this?
It says the INJURY ratio went down. Not the DEATH ratio. All you have to do is read the threads on this forum and others, to see the lack of respect for this sport. People act like atvs should be operated as they see fit and NOT for what, they were designed for. That is, traversing different kinds of terrain, in a controlled state. Not traveling as fast as you can, on every type of terrain out there, in every type of environment. People ride with more then one rider, they drink on them, they speed on them, they operate them on public roads, (where not legal) kids operate a quad bigger then they should, I could go on.
Bottom line is, riders, parents and the industry are not taking care of the problem themselvesAnd, when this happens, sooner or later, the Government steps in and passes laws, in the hopes of doing it. Which of course, sends a lot of people into a frenzy. And where does the government get their information from? From statistics that we just read. Of course, statistics can be manipulated to show, what you want them to show.
Posted by: moldycheese
this is great, right here, "New estimates from the Consumer Product Safety Commission show that 621 people were killed in 2002, the most ever". but this is where it gets good, "Tim Buche, president of the Specialty Vehicle Institute of America, an industry group, touted statistics showing the injury rate among riders of four-wheel ATVs dipped an estimated 6 percent from 2001 to 2003". so, more people are dying because more people are riding, but the death to atv rider went down 6%?!?!?! whats wrong with this?
Posted by: pendejo
Quote
Originally posted by: nubbin
It all boils down to common sense. lol
Exactly! I will say that 625 people is alot, but 1 statistic of how many people died means nothing. According to them, 6.2 million ATV's were in use, with 625 deaths related to ATV's. This means that approximately 1 in every 10,000 ATV's had a hand in the death of someone. This is just another statistic though, that means jack sh1t to me. Using numbers to regulate ATV use is not the way we are going to resolve the problem. It is a good way to see the problem, but not to resolve it. The government can't do anything about it either. Sure, they can implement new laws and regulations, but ultimately it boils down to YOU and YOUR ACTIONS, not the ATV or anyone else. WE, AS ATV RIDERS NEED TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT, not the government or the CPSC. We all know there is a problem, we all have seen people doing some stupid things before. It is our responsibilty to take action to reduce these accidents. I've been thinking about this alot, different ways to regualte ATV use that the government could use, and I just don't see any of it working. The way I see it, eventually it's going to come down to us having two choices. We either do anything we can, parent, lecture, b1tch, moan and groan until our point comes across to whoever you need to get it across to, or we lose ATV's altogether.
Wow, I'm done ranting now.
Posted by: pendejo
Quote
Originally posted by: ShadyRascal
In a nation of 300 million people, you can come up with statistics scary enough to ban anything. Bicycles, baseball bats, 5 gallon buckets, you name it, all have been involved in tragic deaths. People unfortunately are dumb enough to be whipped into a frenzy de jour, and it can end up in loss of freedoms.
This is 100% true. Remember that old show, Rescue 911. There were all kinds of injuries from people using everyday items, washing machines, lawn mowers, screw drivers, etc...
Posted by: pendejo
Quote
Originally posted by: ShadyRascal
I have personally been injured worse than my ATV by:
Lawnmower
Barbed wire (multiple times)
a spring
sheet of particle board
the ground
the front half of a bull elk
I want this stuff controlled or I'm gonna sue someone!
LOL, everything but the elk I've probably been hurt on, too. We'll split the lawyer fee's and sue Home Depot since they sell most of that stuffBR>
I would really like to sue Newton for "discovering" gravity. That stuff really hurts
Posted by: pendejo
I've already made my statements on this topic, but if any of you decide to start some sort of organization to start resolving this, count me in!
Posted by: JimJa
IMO many of the posts here skirt around what's at stake, although some are pretty close. The tree huggers out there against ATVers WILL NOT STOP until ATVs are banned - at least on public lands - unless we, as a group, become activists ourselves.
Many on this forum are sled riders. I've ridden every winter from the town of West Yellowstone, MT for more years than I can remember. The very nice citizens of West Yellowstone believe there will always be snowmobiles allowed in the Park, well, just because. They couldn't be more wrong. The ability to ride in the Park is an on again, off again thing and has been for several years. Presently only guided tours with 4-stroke sleds are allowed and only so many a day. ...but the activists are not done yet. They do not want sleds in the park, period; they WILL NOT STOP - ever! Several years ago I wrote the Snowmobile Assoc. of America to find out what they were doing. ATT time they said they "were waiting for the EPA to set environmental standards." That really spun me up. ...strong letter followed. Waiting is a guaranteed way to lose!
It's exactly the same with ATVs. It's so easy to get the anti-ATVer spun up with a partial truth statements as about people being killed or injured on ATVs. That anti-ATVer is a lot more likely to contact someone of influence than the rest of us. If we as a group are not proactive to protect our riding areas we will find ourselves without those areas. It's as plain as that.
In the meantime we can all be good stewards as we ride. I try to go out of my way to not anger anyone while on the trail. Hell, I'll even stop when I see horses, shut down, and let them pass before restarting. I don't want to give anyone reason to write, call, or otherwise contact any public land official about "those dam ATVers." I have a B.S. in Forestry and an M.S. in Ecology and many friends that work in the Natural Resourses field. I can tell you they are VERY SENSITIVE to callers that complain. Don't give anyone that reason.
Jim
Posted by: JimJa
Rob, Unfortunately the anti-ATVer's interest is in doing away with the ATV, not whether people get injured or killed. Stats involving people killed or injured only serve to support the anti-ATV argument. If no one was killed, their argument would be about noise, envrionment, et al. It will ALWAYS be something. Kids injured or killed are a separate subject and should be addressed within local ATV organizations and with PARENTS; you can't legislate non-involved parents. In my mind its attachment to the ATV picture at large is insular.
Each state is different and unfortunately lines can almost be drawn between Red and Blue states. Certainly western states with a lower population density have a different set of problems than an east coast state. It's unfortunate Blue states tend to have as a base, people that could be classed at elitists in their views of the environment and are unwilling to compromise. The problems ATVers face in these states is much more difficult. I happen to be a compromiser. Generally speaking, I believe there is room for everyone to enjoy activities that interest them, but each has to be willing to give a little to get a little. Unfortunately, and as the battle arises, the anti-ATVer don't see it the same way, and therein lies our difficulty.
There are lots of ways to get involved, but experience suggests the best way is through people with a vested interest; dealers, manufactures, All Terrain Vehicle Association (ATVA / http://www.atvaonline.com/), and local clubs. We all need to keep abreast of bills concerning ATVs at the state or national level and insure others are made aware of the intended consequences of these bills. For example, if you hear of a local or state bill you might stop in at the dealer and ask owner or manager if he/she is aware and does he support/not-support and why. You can also ask how you can help. Touching base with ATVA and bringing the issue up on this and other forums - with "how to" information included - is an additional way to become involved. One more thing...pick your battles. Do not expend a lot of energy on an issue with little or no consequence. Save it for the big ones then go to the mat. Rants will not work. Stick to the facts and present them in a logical and informed way.
Once again, I'm getting way too verbose... Jim
Posted by: CamoKodiak450
To tell you the truth I lost sleep last night after hearing this on the radio. I just bought my 3rd ATV. I beleive it's just like anything else. There are certan people who have no business on one. Most did not have a helmet on. 1 out of three were children riding adult size ATV's. One accident last year involed the death of 5 children riding one ATV at a birthday party and were riding along a highway when a drunk women hit them . I still dont feel very good about this.
Posted by: TallTexun
I hope this link comes out, articler showin fatality and accident reports.. Wonder how this stacks up to Automobile Statistics..
http://apnews.myway.com/article/20050128/D87SR6MO1.html
Posted by: TallTexun
Thanks RescueDiver!
For posting that link that works.
Most of the atv,s in West Texas are used for ranch work. There is also an influx of hunters bringing thier atv,s to the deer leases with them. I cannot recall any fatal accidents that I have ever been aware of in this area. That just struck me as way out of porportion. Wonder what the ratios are to kids riding bikes, driving cars, etc.
Hey anyway thanks for the reply, btw how do you post a link.
thanks
bob
Posted by: notagain
hi all go check out the link under kids quads then "kids on ATV's size wise thread. There are great things going on there regarding this exact issue
link http://forums.atvconnection.com/messageview.cfm/catid/10/threadid/436712.cfm
Its all about education and people making informed wise choices. Yes, most accident/deaths are caused by lack or knowledge, skill or parents giving a kid a bike thats WAY to big. We have got to stop this from happening. Help us all out.
Posted by: notagain
Thank you jim,
A stronger organization needs to be built representing the ATV'ers. Safety must be key #1. Please go visit the thread under kids atvs "kids atv's size wise" and see the discussions there. How do we pull it all together into one operation? People are getting hurt and killed on atv's in huge numbers, that is true, what is also a fact is that these are dumb accidents caused by lack of training and knowledge.
Those of us with more experience must learn how to reach out to those with less and apss it on. Those with less must learn how to listen to us with more. We all need to get our ego out of it and make our sport better.
REALLY, want to hear all your thoughts!!!!!!!
Posted by: notagain
Pendejo,
We need to hear them again and again so more people read them. People come and go in this forum and new folks join all the time. I am learning more all the time myself. When enough people raise there hand some can be done. We need hands raised saying I will help.
Posted by: notagain
wonderfully written Jim,
From this thread and the other under kids quads. I am learning alot. I will be doing something to protect our rights and now have a much clearer picture. I do understand that it is the eviromentalists who are our biggeast advesary. And we need to rally our numbers. Yes there are many orgs who help with the advancement of ATV's but the key word here is many (fragmented). Each has a few members and as you said you need to pick your battles, thats not even any good if you cant muster the troops. when we see postings like this everyone basically agrees yet so few do anything. Run some basic numbers. 10,000 members at $40 per and you have 400K to work with. That actually isnt alot of money but a lot of good could be done. Soon I will be visiting as many other orgs as I can to get more info but someone has to step up and get us all organized. In these forums we are all just preaching to the choir!!
Posted by: robthewheeler
na just dont worry i am going to die doing somthing dumb on my banshee but all of those pple were eather drunk or just dumb and deserved to die
