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Posted by: MUDDY4LIFE
The average STOCK,non High Performance ATV runs its DB level around 90-92db and is very quiet IMO.So asking for 75-80db is just not fair and would really hamper an engines performance output.
I know first hand how annoying a loud ORV is,but what really astounds me is we NEVER hear a damn word from ANY home owners when any LOUD HARLEYS run down a street and wake up the whole freaking neighborhood.I GAUREENTEE you that NONE of these guys are running legal exausts but no one seems to give a damn about these guys?
WHY is this?Is this not also just as annoying to a land owner as the kid on the souped up ATV thats loud?
BIASED maybe?
Bill
Posted by: MUDDY4LIFE
Im not trying to say that I oppose the sound limit for ATVs,but lets do it across the board,on-road cycles included.Loud ATVs do not personally bother me either,but im only ONE person and im also sure that im in the minority of those that dont mind the loud quads.
Lets see if we can get Rev AL SHARPTON to lobby for us?[lol]
Bill
Posted by: Kraw
what does a factory pipe produced? Are there goign to be "noise police" running around with dB meeters?
La doesn't seem to care, had a Ram 1500 with no cats on it for 6 years. No tickets (I know, apples to oranges)
Posted by: blackballed
I'm pretty impressed with the amount of people in here who are capable of giving intelligent responses to this topic without crying about the government taking away their "rights"..............
We have the only dune in the midwest @ Silver Lake and the sound checks have done wonders to keep the riff-raff out of this state park.
If you aren't willing to "voluntarily" comply with noise level laws?...............I think it says a lot about how you view life in general and those around you.
Posted by: blackballed
Old Dude,
Diablo's the same guy who wanted to know if he would get 'caught' at Land-Between-the Lakes this weekend if he and his buddies ran loud pipes............mind you, he didn't ask 'what' the sound limit was or 'why' they made the law.........he was mainly interested in doing whatever in the heck he wanted and making sure he didn't get caught in the process.
Thank you for taking the time to relate what is happening with land issues in 'your' part of the country.......I think I speak for many others in that it was an interesting story.
And yes, you can kid around about executing violators.........or maybe people like Diablo shouldn't actually pull this kind of crap out in the 'wild west'? (lol).
Posted by: blackballed
Quote
Originally posted by: Ol
.....a lot of you wouldn't have to put up with the BS if you took a bit less agressive position with respect to what your machines do to the environment... think about it.
I don't like government in our lives any more than the next guy........saying that; I feel that these forums are pretty indicitive of the attitude that a number of people are taking in regards to self-policing themselves, their friends and those they are charged with setting an example for.
And if "the government" doesn't swoop down here pretty soon and at least make the penalties for "doing what you will"....more than a slap on the hand? (which "I feel", is the only sane compromise between the eco people and (quote/unquote)"us" at this point in time). The people who are trying so hard to take our rights away today?....they will simply "steamroll" all over us, come tomorrow (sorry folks, but by the looks of these forums?.......very few of you are even willing to stand up for what our children are being taught through these conversations).
As Ol says..........quit arguing stupid issues like "pipes" and quit ignoring the fact that we will always need to restore what we damage. How many times have you seen anybody suggest that we will always need to buy and maintain modern heavy equipment to keep our sport viable?. Does anybody realize what this will all cost and how the 21st century's pressures will pretty much demand that one man and a machine do the work of "x" amount of volunteers; all saddled with increasing pressures on their free time?.
Thank you Ol for being one of the few people on here who appreciates the fact that we all can be just as much of an "environmentalist" as the next guy............. and not be ashamed of it.
Posted by: blackballed
I guess if Diablo is going to force you to endure some past conversation that you all know absolutely nothing about previously....... and then somehow just lazily copy his dissertation "out of context"........look at what else this guy doesn't care about putting much effort into...........backing himself up!!!
Here was my (old) reply and certainly hope he can come up with something "original" to share with us "next time" .....................
Originally posted by Diablo:
...."Yet another topic hijacked by the self righteous, as someone else refered to you as, almost communist, perfect angel........"
(lol)...What part of Indiana did you say you were from? You're kind of confusing me here a little as I'm not sure you know the difference between "left" and "right" ideology when you try to describe me as follows; only a couple sentences later!:
".....then I applaud you, even though I feel sorry for anyone that has to hear your "far right" theories on a regular basis....."
Let's hear it for the Indiana Public School system!
(diablo):
".....To start off....I'm not sure where you got the misconception that these forums are for the purpose of teaching morals into the youth of America......"
Responsible "adults" don't necessarily value the manner in which they communicate with each other as a 'conscious' effort to communicate morals to their children. But when we act like we've travelled farther than the "Indianapolis by-pass" in the way that we conduct ourselves?............God Bless the fact that our children are "always listening".... and they couldn't have any better teachers than the good people of these forums who haven't yet let the self-righteous punks of this world take it over.
"......PARENTS, not you or me, are responsible for raising thier children and teaching them the ways of the world and so on......."
So isn't it a good thing that when we obviously have a few folks on here that are a little "lacking" in the parenting department........coupled with people like yourself who are a lot more worried about getting "caught" than what the law actually ever reads..........that there are others on here who have absolutely no problem with speaking their mind and (most importantly) backing it up?
"....If you claim to be such a perfect role model........"
(lol)... easy now!.....I have asked you before to back up what you say with some kind of reference..........
"....why would you support physical violence, as well as gun violence, as you did in another forum, to the supposed vulnerable youth reading these forums?......"
(LOL)! Do you mean to try and tell us that you want to 'now' start "making things up"???......... and even to the extreme of using 'guns v.s. innocent kids' as your fantasy? (lol)...bring the quotes on, my friend!
Ahhhhh, if they have loud pipes, give em a good old fashioned lesson, that'll teach em! Better yet, if they venture off a trail, shoot em in the head and mount it on the wall! that'll teach em! Great advice, hipocrite.........
PUT THE PIPE DOWN, Diablo! Has rock cocaine invaded even the rural vestiges of small-town Indiana? (lol)!
"....I NEVER mentioned wanting to break rules on the use of alcohol on the premises. If it was against the rules, then we would have just camped elsewhere, where it would be allowed. Did I not make this clear on a previous post?....."
You're killing me!!! (LOL!!!)
What did you "think"..... when somebody up here told you that the rangers would arrest you and hold you on FEDERAL CHARGES for 'drinking'? That all of us would somehow 'now' turn around and believe that all this time "you thought" they were going to drag you all away from your campfire and throw you in jail on federal charges.............and "that" was what you were all "disappointed" and worried about about?
Do you guys 'get out' much or do you think we're all just stupid?
"......I would appreciate it if you are going to hold a respectful debate that you not take peoples words and twist them around in order to make your points seem valid, as you did here and another topic......"
(chuckle)......Better look in the miirror, bub........and again,"please"......we're all waiting patiently for you to dig up all this dirt and make something of it!
".....At least you're contributing something "worthwhile" to the sport.People like me are who are keeping this sport alive by frequenting the various state an privately owned parks, demanding better performing ATVs from the manufacturer, and not to mention keeping countless amounts of people employed be it by the manufacturer or the various small businesses that manufacter performance accessories, sell these accessories, etc. etc., as well as the state parks that employ many people........"
WOW!!! You bought a quad.......you had to ride it 'somewhere'..... or you had to sell it.............you're right......"people like yourself" are definitely the backbone of "what's right" in atving today.........if I can find the town hall in b.f. Indiana........I'm gonna go right up to the mayor and have him name 'a day in May' after ya!
"....I don't claim to be a "perfect" person, and yes, I have broken the rules sometimes, and when caught, suffered the consequences for "MY" actions. I do have respect for "most" regulations that exist, and know that there are "usually" good reasons for thier existence. I just know there is a reason that usually, as was the case at LBL, that they are not strictly enforced....."
I guess "you" can read all of that and somehow make sense of it........as for me?.......I'm really sorry that I took the time to respond to someone who is so cluelessly representative of what is wrong with our young people today. They ought to take the self-righteous nonsense you just uttered and hold it up as an example in our schools of what's wrong with today's youth (unless they all feel the same way
"...My buddy did end up using his spark arrestor, although he didn't need to, after witnessing theamount of bikes that were there with aftermarket exausts......."
Honestly, you're about as stupid as the other guy on here with the "other" spark arrestor question and "crisis"...........you're riding in a national 'forest'...........but your buddy "didn't need to" install his spark arrestor.............. because it turns out that there were other dumbasses already down there doing their best to try and burn the place down........ so he might just as well have "joined them"??????
"...and not hearing one person complain about the noise. Hell, even the deer and wild turkeys that were in the woods didn't even bother, they just went along thier business........"
"Unbelievable!!!"
"Heck...it never bothered dem dare deer and turkeys none!............and I didn't even hear or see one feller who said nuttin' about all the rackit we was makin'!....
('wow'......)
".....but I'm not going to waste my time answering them all, no use, as well as digging up your previous posts in which, yes, you do contradict yourself!....."
(LOL)!
That's "o.k.", diablo........we all know that you 'could'....... 'really' get up here and back your accusations up ...."if you wanted to"......we respect you so much more when we can just "take your word for it". <IMG src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif" border=0>
"....they don't come on here for your garbage, which is why you usually get laughed off of the topics!!! So, hahahahahahahahahahahahahahah! Moron."
Won't all of us be glad when 'school' starts? (lol).
End of post.
(Actually, I was in error; as Diablo then informed me.......he was a college graduate!!!! )
There's a lesson here.................Don't judge a book by it's cover!
Posted by: blackballed
Quote
Originally posted by: Diablo
I would hate to be responsible for causing a forest fire, as I'm sure many people would. I'm sure Dr. Blackballed P.H.D. will get off when he sees me admit I was wrong, but at least I admit when I'm wrong.
(chuckle):
It's not that we "get off" everytime you admit you're wrong.........it's just that you have a very hard time proving someone "else" is wrong..........yet you have no problem at all with attacking the person who pointed out your error in the first place!
Take what you just said above...........
..."I wasn't considering the possibility of causing a forest fire. I was only protecting the right to modify ATVs. If trail riding, maybe people should use spark arrestors.........
"Maybe?"..........and what is this about "protecting the right to modify atvs"???
You have no RIGHT to modify the sound of ANY atv; beyond what the law allows!!!
The problem is........you want to convince our kids and the rest of this country..... that you DO have this right.
And there are some of us on here who just won't let you get away with it!
Do we need to spell this out to you any more clearly?
Posted by: blackballed
Quote
Originally posted by: Diablo
That's true, If you ride at places that have set restrictions on sound, then you have wasted your money!
(From Diablo; 'not a week' ago):
"....So if my buddy had not had his spark arrester, and had caught grief for being over the db limit, we would have parked it and used a spare, easy as that........."
Doesn't sound like "your buddy" was worried about "wasting his money", was he?........matter of fact, you and he just about had it all figured out!
".......My group of friends usually frequent places that are private, and that do not require restrictions on sound levels......"
Please give us the state, county and township where this is the case............this ought to be good.
".... We do occasionally go to state parks, and, as I stated before, now realize the importance of using spark arrestors....."
So as I said before..........we just run the "loud pipes" until we get caught!
You're just digging yourself in deeper, diablo! BR>
Posted by: blackballed
I have never witnessed a person 'dance' so much around the issue of loud pipes as yourself, diablo (lol)
This seems to be the comment you are least "proud of"; as you continually try to make us believe this is all simply a "spark arrestor" issue...........
"....So if my buddy had not had his spark arrester, AND had caught grief for being over the db limit, we would have parked it and used 'a spare', easy as that........."
And how many others on here believe in the concept of being as "loud" as you want?..........certainly "the law" shouldn't get in the way of any 'fun' you have planned!!!
I'm sorry, but if you have so many people that feel this way and very few who are willing to come up on here and even debate them...................why do you think that the champions of our cause 'nationally' have described folks like Diablo, who BLATANTLY disobey our sound laws..........as just as great a threat to the future of our sport; as those who are out there 'trespassing'?
DON'T LET PEOPLE COME UP ON HERE AND "DANCE ALL AROUND" WHAT AMOUNTS TO COMMON SENSE AND SIMPLY ACTING LIKE A TRUE AMERICAN CITIZEN WHO RESPECTS OTHERS!
Posted by: blackballed
Quote
Originally posted by: Diablo
We are able to make our own decisions, and pay for our mistakes..........
And this is why we desperately need to increase the fines/penalties for "making your own decisions" at places like LBL.....we do this in order that "paying for your mistakes" hurts a little more than having you simply put one quad away and then having you "jump right back on" another........you knew the rules before you went there...... and people like yourself won't respect them until we start talking impoundment and/or "big dollar" fines.
"....I take major issue with people like you that think that only because you don't enjoy something, that no-one else should either...."
I don't enjoy excessive noise and I really get pissed off when kids start witnessing people out there breaking the law like it doesn't exist........the more I see people like yourself up here asking "if you'll get caught" breaking the law?.......the more it pushes me to tell these kids that there is an alternative way to live their lives like responsible citizens.
"...First it starts with our performance accessories, then you'll move on to sport quads alltogether. You keep trying to take us in that direction, and eventually, the Nazis above you will even take away.........."
This tactic just doesn't "work" with those of us who haven't lost sight of what the issue is here........you either obey the law or "you don't" while enjoying places like LBL........anybody who wants to make it more complicated than 'that'.....should automatically be suspect in regards to their intentions.
Posted by: blackballed
Thank you for your opinion, Ol........what seems to be in doubt here is our responsibility on these forums to portray ourselves as responsible citizens of the atving community.
Anybody who believes that our youth should be subjected to the twisted ideals of which they are currently bombarded with........that is, without being reminded that everything you do for yourself; isn't necessarily the proper way to conduct your life........is simply perpetuating the notion that our liberal society has done their best to propogate........if it feels good....do it!
A lot of these kids are too young to realize that it takes a lot more effort to run "against" those who would take society's rules and throw them to the wind.
And I want to just thank God that there are a few people up here who would like to show these kids that there are some things worth fighting for.........regardless of what they will inevitably be portrayed as for putting forth the effort.
Who should these kids model themselves after? The parent or neighbor who had the amazing capability of bolting an exhaust on a motor?..........or the "adult" who sure would have loved that extra horsepower (and admittedly, the extra 'sound') but chose instead to set an example for all of those who would follow in his footsteps?
Please don't let this issue ruin whatever chance our children may have to recreate responsibly.
Posted by: blackballed
Maybe the biggest problem you have in the UK is with 'litterers"...............our biggest threat here in the U.S. is not "environmentalists"..................it is getting people to realize that it is the riders themselves who are in control of their own destiny.
And so far?................they have not stepped up to the plate as an organized force and literally embarrassed those who might somehow think otherwise.
Posted by: blackballed
Great for the AMA......very good issue to get people to sit down and talk about.........now is their next meeting going to involve "the helmet issue"..... with invitees to include the medical and insurance industries?
Didn't think so......................
Posted by: Ol
Diablo,
Along with a partner, I own a large "ranch" out in the Nevada desert. It's ATV heaven out there. In the immediate vicinicty there's about 400 square miles of BLM offering fantastic riding, rocks hills, canyons, sand, alkalai flats, etc. There's more than one way to get there of course, but very best access to this wonderland crosses our ranch. Otherwise it's very difficult to access.
We land owners become environmentally conscious very quick.
Doctors Blackballed and Rook WV know what they're talking about:
You sir, and yahoos with your attitude, are exactly what caused us to have to put up 10 miles of fence around out place, literally closing off our valley and it's trails, to keep the land from virtually being destroyed and our local herd of wild horses run of into the next county by the excessive noise of your ATVs.
I suggest you:
1) do an attitude check on yourself
and
2) show a little more respect for the laws and the environment while you still have ANY place left to ride
Last time I checked, making lots of loud exhaust noises does NOT increase your testosterone level or help you "bag any babes". It does however, piss off the land owners, destroy the quiet and serenity of the outdoors for LARGE distances, scare off any animals that might be nearby, and damage the rider's hearing - permanently.
I personally would like to see the dB levels down to ~75 - 80 dBs and a penalty scheme for violation ofg the law that offers increasing severity preportional to dB level. At the uppre extremes, incarceration, confiscation of the ATV, or even summary on-the-spot execution.
Posted by: Ol
Diablo,
Pard, let's talk a bit about jumping to conclusions.
A few straight facts:
1) I do own and ride two mountain bikes - Trek Navigators, a 300 and a 500
2) My Cummins diesel is not a pleasure vehicle, as is my wife's Jimmy - they are both commercial vehicles and used in my business(es) and duly registered.
3) I don't live in Nevada, I just happen to own a ranch there. I live in the San Francisco Bay area so all of my vehicles probably have more emissions equipment on them than yours is ever likely to have.
4) There is no "park" - what I'm talking about is wide open desert wilderness - available to the public - Public Lands. And I'm talking real wilderness, miles and miles to a paved road and even farther to a doctor - No phones, no water, no nothing. If you have a problem out there you better be able to solve it.
In fact until "mineral" wealth was discovered on my ranch, my original intent was to develop a park, establish a camp and provide an ATV facility that lead guided Real Wilderness tours to some historic Old West sites and ghost towns.
5) You are right about one thing - at 60 years of age, with 11 grandchildren, I admit to being an old fart. However, I don't exactly "putt" around. I'd bet I was racing dirt bikes before you were born.
6) As for my lack of intelligence, I am a retired IBM engineer and have degrees in Engineering, Secondary Education, Music and American History. I'm currently the Corporate Environmental, Health and Safety Director for a small (but international) Silicon Valley Corporation and own a full time business in the entertainment industry on the side.
I'll grant that "you" didn't correlate loudness with masculinity, but all too many others do indeed come across that way consistently. The posturing gets tiresome. Unfortunately, the way I apparently mis-read your post, you came off sounding like my 12 yeard old grandson.
Posted by: Ol
Diablo,
Yes, I ride my bikes whenever and wherever it's possible. I'm sure you already are aware of this, but, there is a big difference between environmental awareness / concern and environmental nazi-ism.
Life must go on, even as we diligently search for practical alternatives to fossil fuels.
Posted by: Ol
Well sir, l accept that apology and offer mine in return.
Posted by: Ol
This is a drift off topic but it does relate.
Noise pollution is an environmental and health hazard. It just occurred to me that the problem is more peculiar to park riding than the kinds of riding I do the most. I'm gonna ramble a bit here but I do have a point - the kind of riding I do and the kinds of riding most of you do are FAR different:
Being a former easterner, I oft times forget that many folks (not ALL, but Many) from the more highly populated areas of the US don't have Clue One about what real wilderness is. Recently, I posted a list of what I carry on my ATV for survival should I break down. In essence, my preparations were laughed at by a lot of folks on the forum.
You see, I consider riding in an ATV park, compared to how and where I ride, is like to going to Six Flags or Disneyland, driving the Kiddie Cars and pretending you're out driving on the interstate. I suppose if the only horse you ever ride is the pony at the petting zoo, then that's what you consider horse riding really is. There are NO "parks" out where I ride. Just high desert wilderness and out there a man is responsible for his own survival.
Yes, I ride for pleasure out there. I also ride for exploration, ride for prospecting, ride for working, ride while guiding guests around, yada, yada, yada... and there are NO rangers telling me do this, don't do that, no whippy flags, and no one - no cops - to call to bail you out if you get in trouble!! BR>
I recently read, somewhere, a comment was made by someone who had encountered a man with a gun. The fact that the man was armed seemed to weigh heavily and the man was thus deemed "crazy" by the poster. The simple fact is, the Old West is still very much alive many places. There are LOTS of places out in Arizona, Nevada, and Wyoming (that I know of) where going into town and walking in and out of businesses with a revolver strapped on your hip will never get you a second glance. Out in the high desert, you carry 3 things EVERYWHERE: water, a knife. and a firearm.
Don't confuse park riding with real wilderness riding. They are LONG way apart. I'm glad you have your parks. I'm sure they offer many wonderful advantages but to me, they're simply another means of governmental control. While you're riding the local park wishing you had real wilderness to ride in theyre FORCING you to protect the environment along with forcing you to do everything else 'their' way. And if you doubt this look at the many magazine and web articles about "Real ATV" tours or wilderness riding in exotic places.
Now, MY POINT - simply something to ponder: a lot of you wouldn't have to put up with the BS if you took a bit less agressive position with respect to what your machines do to the environment... think about it.
Posted by: Ol
It is a truism that "the bit dog yelps the loudest".
Looking at this thread coldly, it would appear that some folks involved herein believe themselves to be above that law. They apparently believe laws they don't like simply don't apply to them. Many learned folk will assert that this attitude most frequently manifests itself in the minds of pathological criminals.
Eventually these scofflaws either reach some level of maturity and change their attitudes or their disdain for the law eventually earns tham an all expenses paid vacation at a local Graybar Hotel.
If you don't like the law, you have the constitutional right to work your ass off to change it. You DO NOT have the right to ignore it or to corrupt the morality of younger persons who may for some unknown reason hold you in esteem and may attempt to emulate you.
Posted by: reconranger
California has a new 96dbA sound rule on public land (and don't laugh, because you know your state will be next!!). What this means is that we are going to have to ride our bikes corked up. So, we are going to need BIG HORSEPOWER machines to make up for the fact that we can't pipe our bikes. Any manufacturers out there listening?????
For example: My moded (but very loud) Z400 keeps up easily with my friends stock Raptors. But, if I have to cork up the Z, I don't have a chance!! So, if we are going to have to ride a corked up bike, we are going to have to have big horsepower RIGHT OUT OF THE BOX, without any mods that increase sound levels.
I actually think it is a good idea in areas where there are other trail users (like the National Forest). I don't thing it is necessary in the wide open desert though. Anyway, "LESS SOUND, MORE GROUND".
Posted by: reconranger
Can't remember exactly, but most quad stock pipes are in the high 80's. Yes, the rangers will run around with meters and ticket you if you don't comply. So far though, I only know of one person that has been checked.
The new crop of 426/450 class dirt bikes won't pass even when stock!
Posted by: reconranger
I personally don't mind loud bikes!! The sound of a YZ426 is music to my ears!! At places like Glamis, Dumont, Ocotillo Wells, or Pismo, EVERYBODY THERE IS THERE TO RIDE (not contemplate nature!!), so I don't see why it matters at these places. (These are open areas, so no private land owners are involved). On the other hand, in the National Forest people are there for other reasons. In the NF, I usually ride the utilities anyway, and they are quiet enough (I hope?) to pass muster.
Posted by: reconranger
Spark arrestors. Out here in Calif., even the most lax person wouldn't leave the driveway without one. The whole place is one big tinder box.
Posted by: Diablo
DR. Blackballed has spoken!!! Great. So, I guess anyone who decides to modify thier quad is considered"RIFF RAFF!" I guess they have no regard for society in general? Geez man, you truly are anal. Theres also people out there that think that people who ride ATVs are "RIFF RAFF," and have no regard for modern society, that would like to turn all our ATV parks into horse and hike camps. So, what side are you on?
Posted by: Diablo
Oldude,
first off, I believe that there should be designated parks and trails for ATVs. I highly discourage, being a landowner myself, any one from venturing off these designated trails. iI agree, Atv's, especially loud ones, scare off wildlife, rut up trails, and so on. Thats why we have parks that we pay to ride at and are for enjoyment of the sport. Do not put me in the Yahoo category, because I am far from that.
I never said anything about boosting my testosterone by having a loud quad, but sometimes in order to get peak performance out of an ATV, it's going to be louder. Some people like to go faster, instead of putting around like an old fart as I assume you do. I'm happily married with a beautiful daughter, so your picking up babes theory won't fly here. The reason I came after Blackballed is because he analyzes what everyone posts, and tends to piss people off. Kind of an ongoing tiff. Not the first time we've argued.
I suggest you...
1.Check Your attitude before coming to conclusions
2.Get rid of all your environmentally damaging SUV's, as well as your Cummins powered rig, and ride a bike, since you are so environmentally friendly.
3.Move.......... Not sure if you or the nearby park were there first........... but I'm sure if you and your nieghbors would have stirred up enough of a commotion, it wouldn't of opened. If it was there first, then you should have known better.
4. Go ahead, try your on the spot executions..........you sounded pretty intellegent until I read that.Geez.
5. Have a nice day!!!!!!!!!
img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif" border="0">img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-blush.gif" border="0">img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif" border="0">
Posted by: Diablo
oldude-
Yes, you are an old fart. LOL! I probably wasn't thought of while you were racing dirt bikes!!!!!!!! They made those back then?JK! I agree with many of the issues you brought up, and, and sorry about the intellegence remark, although I don't agree with killing people that might have mistakingly wandered onto your land. If not a mistake, give em a good beating then involve the law. I am familiar with the emmisions laws, having lived in Colorado. What have you done to your vehicles other than leaving all the stock smog equipment on? So, do you ride your bikes to and fro when not on business? curious. I love it when people slam other emmisions producing vehicles, yet contribute to the pollution themselves in more ways then one. Business or not, you're still contributing......
Posted by: Diablo
Just as I came off as a 12 yr old kid, you came off to me ass a EnviroNazi. My apologies. Life will progress, and eventually, like it or not, we will have to face the consequences of our actions. Have a good one.
Posted by: Diablo
Sorry to have to do this, but I think this pretty much explains things a bit........ This is from another topic......
Now, on to Dr. Blackballed........
Yet another topic hijacked by the self righteous, as someone else refered to you as, almost communist, perfect angel.
To start things off, I'm not sure where you got the misconception that these forums are for the purpose of teaching morals into the youth of America........ This is an ATV forum, not DR.Phil, Anne Landers, etc. etc. If people come on here for that, then they have bigger issues. PARENTS, not you or me, are responsible for raising thier children and teaching them the ways of the world and so on. This forum is for talking about ATVs, places to ride, as this topic is under, and yes, there is a "other ATV topics section, which you seem to frequent as well. If you claim to be such a perfect role model, why would you support physical violence, as well as gun violence, as you did in another forum, to the supposed vulnerable youth reading these forums? Ahhhhh, if they have loud pipes, give em a good old fashioned lesson, that'll teach em! Better yet, if they venture off a trail, shoot em in the head and mount it on the wall! that'll teach em! Great advice, hipocrite.
I NEVER mentioned wanting to break rules on the use of alcohol on the premises. If it was against the rules, then we would have just camped elsewhere, where it would be allowed. Did I not make this clear on a previous post? I would appreciate it if you are going to hold a respectful debate that you not take peoples words and twist them around in order to make your points seem valid, as you did here and another topic.
If you ARE really involved in the numerous organizations that you mentioned, then I applaud you, even though I feel sorry for anyone that has to hear your far right theories on a regular basis. If you did spend that amount of money on getting some children properly trained on safety, then once again, congrats. Atleast you're contributing something "worthwhile" to the sport.
People like me are who are keeping this sport alive by frequenting the various state an privately owned parks, demanding better performing ATVs from the manufacturer, and not to mention keeping countless amounts of people employed be it by the manufacturer or the various small businesses that manufacter performance accessories, sell these accessories, etc. etc., as well as the state parks that employ many people to upkeep and enforce rules.
I don't claim to be a "perfect" person, and yes, I have broken the rules sometimes, and when caught, suffered the consequences for "MY" actions. I do have respect for most regulations that exist, and know that there are "usually" good reasons for thier existence. I just know there is a reason that usually, as was the case at LBL, that they are not strictly enforced. My buddy did end up using his spark arrestor, although he didn't need to, after witnessing theamount of bikes that were there with aftermarket exausts, and not hearing one person complain about the noise. Hell, even the deer and wild turkeys that were in the woods didn't even bother, they just went along thier business.
I'm sure theres many more false accusations you made against me, but I'm not going to waste my time answering them all, no use, as well as digging up your previous posts in which, yes, you do contradict yourself! Imagine that! Mr. Perfect isn't so perfect!!!
Remember, people come on here for advice on ATV's, parks, and yes, even on regulations. they don't come on here for your garbage, which is why you usually get laughed off of the topics!!! So, hahahahahahahahahahahahahahah! Moron.
I ride at state parks and privately owned facilities, which I, as others, pay a fee to enter. Why should we be responsible for the upkeep of these facilities, isn't that what the fees are for? What about the state taxes? OHV permits?
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FACE YOUR FEAR!
87 Warrior-Bone stock. (THE TANK)
97 Jeep XJ, 3.5" Skyjacker
Posted by: Diablo
Oh no, you got me!!!!! Wow, you should be a detective! Kinda funny, sice Dr. Blackballed P.H.D is the one who brought up the other post to begin with. I simply posted the same response in here because I wanted to save time, call that lazy, thats fine, wouldn't be the first time someone called me that. I admitted being confused with my ideologies, and explained my stance on the alcohol issue. If people want to waste thier time reading through our previous discussions, I invite them to, I'm not going to waste my time quoting all the garbage that he's typed and analyzing it. Although it is kind of funny to see how many people he seems to piss off with his higher than thow attitude. Please Dr. Blackballed P.H.D, show us the path to almighty knowledge and righteousness, so we can all live by your example, so no rules will ever be broken, we can all hold hands and praise you, almighty Blackballed!!!
I've thought about the Spark arrestor issue some more, and am willing to admit that I wasn't looking at the full picture. I wasn't considering the possibility of causing a forest fire. I was only protecting the right to modify ATVs. If trail riding, maybe people should use spark arrestors or other means of avoiding causing a fire. I would hate to be responsible for causing a forest fire, as I'm sure many people would. I'm sure Dr. Blackballed P.H.D. will get off when he sees me admit I was wrong, but at least I admit when I'm wrong.
Posted by: Diablo
Who do you refer to when you say "we?" You and your imaginary buddy? I was only saying that "you" get off on being an @sshole, not anyone else. Last time I checked, there were still many aftermarket companies "legally" selling pipes as well as other aftermarket components. You could always try and lobby against them, good luck, I'm sure they deal with Nazis like you everyday. Can I legally use these products in every state park? No. Am I allowed to fly up and down the street revving my quad in order to annoy people who live down the street? No. My point is, yes, I still have the right to purchase theses products. So, Mr. Nazi, unless you want to physically stop me and other people from executing our "right" to modify our quads in any matter we choose, you're going to have to live with it.
Posted by: Diablo
Thats true, If you ride at places that have set restrictions on sound, than you have wasted your money! Unless you're an evil uneducated person like myself and break the rules! My group of friends usually frequent places that are private, and that do not require restrictions on sound levels. We do occasionally go to state parks, and, as I stated before, now realize the importance of using spark arrestors.
Thanks for replying without getting all bent out of shape, as others tend to do. Maybe they can learn from you and be able to get thier point across better without turning this into a personal bashfest! yeah, I'm guilty of it too, but I was pushed! I'm usually a nice guy, I promise!
Posted by: Diablo
No, "bub," I am not digging myself deeper, yet you do continue to make yourself look like more and more of an @ss! And to answer your question on places that don't have sound restrictions- Badlands, Attica, In, and Haspin Acres, Laurel, IN, as well as many privately owned properties in which we are allowed to ride without a problem.
Yes, I was asking about spark arresters on my buddys behalf last week. Guess what, he's a grown man, who is allowed to make his own decisions, and who doesn't need some-one else telling him how he should live his life. In the end, he ended up using one, so obviously he made the right decision. Kudos for him, nothing for you.
Wow, after reading some more of these topics, I noticed your mouth has managed to make yourself more enemies, some even in the high school range! Are these not the same "vulnerable" kids that you are trying to force your message upon? Good job "bub!" I also notice you're trying to make an example of me, thats fine, I admitted being wrong about the spark arrester issue, BUT, don't think that you can take credit for me changing my mind. The credit is due to someone esle, so sorry, no day in May named after you, either. I will see if I can get one of those Jackasses out in the field named after you, though, will that make you happy?
Posted by: Diablo
See, isn't that great about being an American citizen, you are legally able to voice your opinion on any matter you choose? Seriously, if not for that right, you, and the so called "champions" of your cause probably would have been silenced long ago! We are able to make our own decisions, and pay for our mistakes.
No, this isn't only a spark arrester issue. I take major issue with people like you that think that only because you don't enjoy something, that no-one else should either. First it starts with our performance accessories, then you'll move on to sport quads alltogether. You keep trying to take us in that direction, and eventually, the Nazis above you will even take away your ability to enjoy your precious sp500. Oh no, that could never happen, because you're Dr. Blackballed, P.H.D! And you're friends with the "champions" of the cause!!!
I'm glad you edit just about every reply you post, I can only imagine the amount of BS you've saved us from having to endure.
HAVE A NICE DAY!!!
Posted by: RookWV
Loudness doesn't always equate to more power but it does usually equate to more and more pissed off landowners and neighbors....just something to keep in mind....
Posted by: RookWV
You missed the point about modifying quads.....you can only mod your ride as far as the law allows. Sure you can go out and buy an obscenely loud pipe but if your riding area laws say that quads can only be so loud then you've only wasted your time and money.
Posted by: hotseatperformancefan
wow?!?!?!?!?
Posted by: hotseatperformancefan
i love my exhaust and it doesnt have a spark arrestor. the reason for that is there is no sparks coming out of it so why would i want to waste money to put one on?? also a lot of places dont have db limits yet so blackballed your wrong that we are breaking the law. o yea blackballed just to tell you, you dont need to write long replys because no one will reed them. they're quite boring.
Posted by: HA2
dont know of too many landowners in glamis/gordons/buttercup, ca. matter of fact, 99% of that areas business and tourism is from the ATV/off road visitors. I for one am positive i can pass these new regulations, but totally oppose the law as a frequent duner. i can understand in even the most upmost rural cirumstances but their is absolutely no one out in these areas i'm speaking of. after hours noise regulations would be a good idea for camping areas and loosely populated areas.
Posted by: HA2
Quote
Originally posted by: Ol
If you don't like the law, you have the constitutional right to work your ass off to change it. You DO NOT have the right to ignore it or to corrupt the morality of younger persons who may for some unknown reason hold you in esteem and may attempt to emulate you.
i agree with this statement. resistance will only cause more laws that you oppose and so on and so on. the government does not respond to offenders and compromise takes two.
Edit: typos
Posted by: RideRed81
God I love my Big Gun exhaust! I will even be able to make more noise when the 450 comes out, those suckers are super loud with exhaust. Time to disturb the peace.
Posted by: RideRed81
Well said.
Posted by: RideRed81
You stupid enviromentalists, this story says it all. By burning all those things they release more toxic fumes into the air than the SUV's would have in their entire lifespan, eat a big fat C*ck hypocrites.
WEST COVINA, Calif. - Public officials, firefighters and Hummer fans rallied outside an auto dealership to denounce the unidentified vandals who did $1 million in damage as an environmental protest.
"We don't disagree with the need to improve fuel efficiency," said West Covina City Councilman Mike Miller. "But vandalism doesn't get the message across."
About 25 members of a Southern California Hummer fan club joined officials outside Clippinger Chevrolet for Sunday's rally. They toured the area where fires early Friday gutted a parts warehouse and destroyed 20 Hummer H2s. Another 20 Hummers and several Chevrolet Tahoes were significantly damaged by fire and spray-painting.
Three other dealers and at least four privately owned vehicles in the area also were damaged during the vandalism spree.
Miller said council members planned to meet with local auto dealers this week to discuss ways to improve security.
"We are concerned," said Josh Sage, a sales manager at Huntington Beach Chrysler Jeep and Hummer. The dealership moved its Hummers to a back lot and hired an extra security guard to patrol all night, he said.
The Earth Liberation Front, a loose association of militant environmentalists that has claimed responsibility for other acts of arson and vandalism, said in an unsigned e-mail Friday that the incidents were "ELF actions" but added it had not be in contact with those responsible.
Slogans such as "Fat, Lazy Americans" and "I (heart) pollution" were painted on vehicles.
Posted by: UKzilla
one way or another the tree huggers will get you of the roads the trails the dunes infact they will get you of anything with an internal combustion engine unless you act now to protect your freedoms and way of life,
96db will still be more than enough to piss the tree huggers offf so dont worry to much about it,
just be greatfull you can ride on public land while you can,
untill i can get a 60hp clockwork conversion for my zilla i just dont give a $hit about the environment
i find litter in the country side far more offensive than a bit of noise and a few tire tracks
Posted by: Tuckahoe
It only takes a few cliks - come on,bring it-
National summit held on road and off-road vehicle sound
May 21 – The American Motorcyclist Association recently held a national summit on motorcycle sound that is also an important development for ATVers.
Sound levels from street, and off-highway vehicles, are becoming more and more of an issue nationwide. The AMA brought together representatives of the street and off-road communities to discuss the issue. Among those invited to attend were motorcycle manufacturers, aftermarket companies, event organizers, law enforcement, municipal government, research institutions and regulatory agencies.
Those present considered various aspects of the issue in a series of seminars and open discussions. They agreed to continue those discussions in the coming months.
© 2003, All Terrain Vehicle Association
