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Posted by: Tree Farmer
Thanks for sharing this information, hot_shoe_cv.
While I respect ATVers who support Gore for other reasons, Gore's candidacy for President bears a significance to ATVing.
Not only will a Gore victory sustain the Clinton-Gore administration's unilateral land-grab, already closing millions of acres to public access (including, but not limited to ATVers) without discussion or consent; Gore has clearly identified the internal combustion engine (like the ones powering your ATV, your car, etc.) an "enemy of the people" he want to eliminate. Further, Gore insists on increasing our dependence upon foreign oil, opposing even environmentally-sound domestic oil exploration, development, and refining; desabilizing the world balance of power, a situation posing severe restrictions on not only the future of ATVing but the future, period.
I believe I've heard Gore claim on TV he'd "walked guard and been shot at in Vietnam . . ;" I always wondered about the combat scenario of his personal war experiences.
You cleared up questions in my mind--I also wondered about Gore's academic record at divinity school--I read where he completed no courses there, that is, took "F's" in all his subjects and dropped out.
This behavior, dropping/flunking out of school, didn't appear typical of a guy who now goes to great lengths (with media accomplices) to demonstrate how "smart" he is.
Could enrollment in divinity school have been a ruse to get out of Vietnam, not unlike Clinton's fraudulent enrollment in R.O.T.C. to evade the draft?
True patriots, these guys! One, even a hero, by his account.
Finally, I agree with you, hot_shoe_cv; yes, vote, do!
Tree Farmer
Posted by: Prospector
More Gore ... Here's an email I got yesteday from my cousin:
Subject: Want Your Money Back?
[quote]Tired of so much of your money going to the government?
Want some back? Then vote on November 7.
Here is the bottom line:
If you pay federal income taxes, under Bush's plan you will get a tax cut.
At his convention, Al Gore said only the "right people" should get tax cuts. Problem is, Gore leaves out 50 million taxpayers.
That's no typo - Gore does not think 50 million
taxpaying Americans are the "right people."
It's up to you to help reach these 50 million people so they can get the facts.
Send this email to as many taxpayers as you know.
Use the Bush tax calculator to figure out your savings
under the Bush Tax Cut Plan:
[url]http://www.georgewbush.com/TaxCalculator.asp[/url]
or
Read George W. Bush's proposals yourself by going here:
[url]http://www.georgewbush.com/issues/taxes.html[/url]
If you send it to 10 taxpayers and those 10 send it to 10 more, and so on, then your tax cut will become a reality. That's money you can use to pay off credit card debt, make that car downpayment, start saving for college, or do whatever else YOU want with YOUR money.
That's the point: it's YOUR MONEY.
Vote Bush November 7 and get the tax cut you deserve.
Did someone forward this to you? Help make this tax cut
a reality, get on the Bush eTrain, sign up here:
[url]http://www.BusheTrain.com[/url]
[/quote]
Posted by: Prospector
Yeah sure, vote for neither. Let someone else pick your president!
Most of us don't really like any of the candidates, but we know of at least one that must be defeated. Don't waste your vote on a non-contender; vote for the candidate that you find the least objectionable *and* has a chance to win. Personnaly, I *don't* want to see Al Gore in the Whitehouse! but that's MY choice.
Posted by: hot_shoe_cv
For those who may have seen the debates on TV recently, I thought this article might illustrate Bro Gore's considerable talent for stretching the truth when it suits his purpose.
> > Subject: FW: AL GORE IN VIETNAM
> > >
> > > Having posted a little tickler in last week's Digest about Al Gore's
> > > 141 days in Vietnam," The Federalist Editorial Board was inundated
> > > with inquiries from Vietnam vets. Most went something like this:
> > > "Gore claimed in his convention speech: 'I enlisted in the Army
> > > because I knew if I didn't go, someone else in the small town of
> > > Carthage, Tennessee would have to go in my place.' Since he wasn't KIA
> > > or wounded, how was it that his Army tour was far shorter than all the
> > > rest of us?"
> > >
> > > Our astute veteran readers took the bait!
> > >
> > > Gore's campaign launched a multimillion-dollar ad campaign this week
> > > to tell his "life story." The ads will include references to his
> > > service" in Vietnam-however brief. Gore spent less than five months of
> > > a typical twelve-month tour in Vietnam. He spent every minute of his
> > > "tour" as a "rear-echelon...." (call any combat veteran and they can
> > > complete that phrase for you). He was classified as a military
> > > journalist after telling recruiters he was a newspaper trainee" (read
> > > "copy boy") for the New York Times while a student at Harvard. He was
> > > assigned as a noncombatant "information specialist" to the Army's 20th
> > > Engineers Brigade headquarters at Bien Hoa military base near Saigon.
> > >
> > > Gore's immediate supervisor in Vietnam has confirmed that his posting
> > > there came with explicit instructions to baby-sit him and make sure he
> > > was never in any danger. That fact notwithstanding, Gore has claimed
> > > to the Washington Post that he was "shot at" and "spent most of my
> > > time in the field." He later told the Baltimore Sun that "[I] pulled
> > > my turn on the perimeter at night and walked through the elephant
> > > grass and I was fired upon." He has since backed off these exaggerated
> > > claims.
> > >
> > > On May 22, 1971, not five months into his "tour of duty," Gore was
> > > given special dispensation and a one-way ticket home to attend
> > > divinity school in Nashville. He dropped out of Vanderbilt shortly
> > > thereafter.
> > >
> > > As for the seven months cut from Gore's tour of duty in Vietnam, we
> > > suppose "someone else in the small town of Carthage, Tennessee" had to
> > > finish his tour "in his place."
> > >
> > > If everyone sends the above to 7 people, I am positive that we can do
> > > some good for the COUNTRY. And please remember to vote................
>
Posted by: hot_shoe_cv
spoken like a true (Democrat?) or something!
Posted by: hot_shoe_cv
Since this topic has gone off on somewhat of a tangent, I thought I'd inject a little humor in it, sardonic though it may be:
There is a message here!
Al Gore is out jogging one morning, notices a little
boy
on the corner with a box.
Curious, he runs over to the child and says, "What's
in the
box, kid?" The little boy says,
"Kittens, they're brand new
kittens."
Al Gore laughs and says, "What kind of kittens are
they?"
"Democrats," the child says.
"Oh, that's cute," Al Gore says and he runs
off.
A couple of days later, Al Gore is running with his
buddy Bill
Clinton and he spies the same boy
with his box just ahead.
Al says to Bill,
"You gotta check this out," and they both jog
over to the boy with the box.
Al says, "Look in the box Bill, isn't that
cute? Look at
those little
kittens. Hey, kid, tell my friend Bill what kind of
kittens they are."
The boy replies, "They're Republicans."
"Whoa!" Al says, "I came by here the other day and
you
said they were Democrats. What's
up?"
"Well," the kid says, "Their eyes are open
now."
Posted by: Bill.Ciliberti
Neither Al gore or George Bush float my boat.I cant stand what Gore wants to do to our public riding area's,and I also hate the fact that Bush's State of Texas min wage is 335 per hr.He turned down a bill to raise the minimum wage 6 times allready.Who can survive at this wage?Of coures these are ONLY a few things about these two I dislike.
I have been a Dem my entire life,but I must say,neither of these idiots will get my vote this yr,
Bill
Posted by: Bill.Ciliberti
Doc,
Your statement is not entirely true.There are ALOT of kids today and in the past that did their homework,got good grades, and payed attention in class and still have a low paying job.Even after completing College today, does not gaureentee everyone a good living because there simply is to much Corporate greed going on in todays big bussiness's.
There are simply TO many low wage big CORPORATE jobs in todays world.This is only ONE example of hundreds,
Yrs ago,I worked as a Union HI-LO driver at a well known local brewing co.I made a Union hrly wage of 15.35 per hr.It was not the greatest living,however,I did survive ok on it.I got laid off a yr later.While laid off,I was getting unempoyment benifits for awhile afterwords.I was actively seeking work as a HiLo driver to.
I answered this ad in the newspaper for a HiLo driver at a large Plastics Corporation nearby.Their wage for an experienced HiLo driver was 6.50 per hr.This is the SAME Corporation that knocked down millions in profits that yr.These are the same idiots that will allow you to work 70 hrs per wk for them and give you shi- for wages.Some worker's were REQUIRED to work them hrs or get fired.These type of working conditions and wages is known as CORPORATE GREED.I also beleive that it is Mr Bush that wants to BAN overtime wages.I CANT STAND FOR CORPORATE GREED.
Im a FIRM beleiver in that if the employee's are a big reason for the outstanding profits of todays bussiness's,they should be payed accordingly.After all,it's essentially the employee's who make the bussiness work or fail.Why be greedy if the profits are there?
While the hard working employee's are working for peanut wages,and putting in 70-plus hrs a wk to support their family's,guess who's getting rich?I have NO respect for these types of people or the jobs they claim to give.There is very little pride in working for a greedy company like this,and guess what?There's thousands more just like them in OUR country right now.
You said that if someone has a minimum wage job that they should do something about it on their own and not to wait for someone else to do something for them.With todays greedy,Corporate companys,theres not much to do,except probably get the same low paying, greedy wages at the next Corporation.There are a few good ones out there,but you really have to get lucky,
Bill
Posted by: Bill.Ciliberti
SHOE,not really trying to sound like a true Dem.I stand up for what I feel is correct.It's just I cant stand for what either Bush or Gore stand for.Later,
Bill
Posted by: Bill.Ciliberti
Doc,
I posted a reply this morning in regards your above post.I see that they did'nt post ANY of it,wonder why?Anyways,im not going to write it again.Im pissed they did not post it though,
Bill
Posted by: Bill.Ciliberti
Rammer,
something has to make the larger Corporation's run and operate efficently,that usually requires a good amount of EMPLOYEES.So therefore,JOBS are an essential part of 99% of todays larger Corporations.
You miss my point.I certainly could not afford to pay 18 per hr to my employee's if I had my own Ice cream shop,I made NO accusation in regards to that either.Your totally off base with regards to the point I try and make.With such a small amount of employees and profits in a small Ice cream shop,high profits dont exist,therefore,neither can high wages.The same usually goes with any smaller business.
My gripe is with these large Corp Manufacturing company;s that rake in millions of dollars in profits each yr and pay very little wages to the people responsable for most the profits gained.I have a real problem with that.Thats Corporate GREED.
My earlier explantion of my local Plastics Co is just one example of the Corp greed that goes on in America today.They rake in milloins in profits,work you 70+ hrs pr wk and pay shi- for wages/benefits.I dont stand for that.
If I did own a large Corp with good profits,you can bet your LIFE my employee's would be the FIRST to share my wealth.If you make it[$$],share part of it with the one's who are responsible for its success.
I do agree that the taxes we pay as citizens are way to much.Thats not your or my fault.Our Government WASTES Billions of tax payers dollars each and every yr.Nobody seems to care enough to want to do anything about government waste.Last election,my vote went to Ross Peroe.I liked what his agenda stood for.
I wont bat an eye in this yrs election for either Gore or Bush,I dis-like both of them,
Bill
Posted by: TxDoc2
I understand, from an expose' on The History Channel, that Al Bore never came close to being wounded in Viet Nam, as he was often mistaken for a dead tree stump.
Posted by: TxDoc2
What Gore wants to do? You mean what he IS doing and has been doing!
All of the folks I grew up with and did not want to do homework or pay attention in class are now the ones with minimum wage jobs. They should not try and blame the government for their situation as an adult. One of my best friends is a neurosurgeon and grew up without running water. He was poor, but worked hard. He didn't have any atvs or other luxuries. He had to work jobs while going to school. He made it fine. If someone has a minumum wage job, they need to do something about it on their own. Waiting for someone else to do it is not a solution.
Posted by: TxDoc2
You don't have to work for someone else. Alnmost every single person I know has some gift or talent that they were born with and should apply. Some people have fantastic memories or ability to draw or play music or deal with people, handle blood and gore, some people need to be monitored all the time they are doing a job and some poeple can be left completely unsupervised, some can work on an ATV engine or a set of Honda drum brakes. It is just a matter of finding out what comes naturally and is interesting to a person and then apply their efforts in the proper direction. I really believe you get out of something only what you put into it. Just because someone at McDonald's cannot speak correct English, cannot make change, remember their name without looking at their nametag or treat a customer with repsectful language does not mean they don't have a talent like painting or welding or doing something else. They are just not able to figure out what to do or have not found the right person to help them what to do in life. I have a friend who does portraits of animals, exclusively. No people, just their pets. Granted, this is in California, but she makes mid five figures a year at this. Before this, she was a school teacher and worked hard, got no thanks or respect from students or parents and was very underpaid for her talent and desire to teach. If you work for someone else, you are always at their mercy. If you work for youself, you can put as much time and effort into your job/career as you want to and can be as successful as you want to. But, with the restrictions of the government on small business owners, it discourages many to take own the risks of self-employment. So, they end up going with the security, albeit sometimes a false security, of a weekly paycheck. A sure thing that can end whenever someone else comes along that does their job better or their boss is just plain tired of seeing them show up. I think free-thinking and true entrepreneurs are stifled by folks like slick Willy and Gore. They want to perpetuate government-dependence so they can control people and their lives. No progress ever can occur with that, only stagnation.
Posted by: TxDoc2
Good post. It's true that no one wants to put out the effort and take the time to wait on things. They want everything and want it now. Too many have the attitude of "where's mine" and "gimme, gimme, gimme". If you want something bad enough, get it for yourself. Get a good education and you can get anything you want. If you have an education, no one can take that from you.
Posted by: TrailMix
I was just thinking, it must tear Al Gore's twisted heart out to know that "his invention", the internet, is being used to promote atving. Ha Ha.
Posted by: Rammer
Bill, Corporations are in the business to make money, Period. Not to give people jobs. The jobs they provide are just a by-product of this. Just think of how much of that minimum wage would go if we the people didn't have to pay so much of it to taxes. Here in PA. we pay .43 cents for every gallon of gas, 6% sales tax(Pitts-Phil 7%), 2.8% for state income taxes Plus all the property taxes ect. These taxes that everyone has to pay, regardless of income. Taxes for Corporations are even worse. If you had your own small business, say an Ice Cream shop, could you afford to pay each employee 18.00 an hour, plus the other expenses that the employer has to pay for each? (Worker's comp, SS, unemployment, OHSA, EEOC,etc.) Or would you pay them minimum wage so you can make a buck? Nobody forces poeple to work for minimum wages. I've been there and done that. I kept looking for better work until I found it, then kept looking for even better, just like you have also done.
Posted by: Rammer
Bill, Just where do you think all the profits go from large corporations? It gets payed to the shareholders(the people responsible for the corp.)as dividends. So that profit is payed to thousands and maybe millions of shareholders, depending on the amount of stock issued.
Posted by: recon98
I'm gonna vote for Nixon. He might be dead, but his still isn't as stiff as Gore..........;)
Posted by: hambone
Dear Rammer you are correct to a fault. People in this rich country of ours have to realize a few basic truths. first of all the working people of the U.S.A. have the ability to produce more goods and services than we as a people could possibly consume. Thus the entire population can not be employed simoultainiously. Not everyone can be CEO of some giant CO. Not everyone can be a doctor or a lawyer. We can not all have good paying jobs in a factory, nor can we all make a living driving a tractor trailer or being a fireman. we can not all walk into some warm cozy goverment job or be movie stars or dig graves or do autopsies.
You know Rammer if people got paid for the work that they did. Work being defined as (mass times movement equalls work) then dock workers and bricklayers and people performing physical labor would be the highest paid. But this is not the case people get paid, what they can get away with.
When Chrysler was up to there ass in trouble a short time ago Lee Iacoca agreed to try and save the company. He told the board of directors what he wanted in terms of money and stock options and the like. He also told them that he needed full authority to make the decisions that would be neccesary to save the company. The board had no choice but to give him what he wanted, Chrysler was going down and if Lee blew it they didnt have to pay him. After all if a company is broke they are not going to pay anyone the big bucks.
Was LEE worth $280,000,000.00 . I dont know, but he got away with it. The stockholders in Chrysler Corporation thought the man was God. Are surgeons worth $ 850,000.00 anually. Hell yes we expect them to be GOD,s. The president of the most powerfull country on earth makes about $327,000.00 anually. Is he worth it. Oh yea!!!
Now your probably wondering what the hell is this guys point. Well here we go, people have to be happy with who they are, they must be content with what they have ,where they live and how they enjoy there spare time. A rich man never really knows if the people surrounding him care about him or his money. The poor man may never know what its like to sit on the deck of a beach house in Malibu and let the warm summer breeze surround him. He will know the woman laying along side of him loves him for who he is, he will probably worry about how she would survive finnancially if something was to happen to him. The rich man and the poor man have more in common than they know.
The minnimum wage in this fine country is neither appauling nor excessive its what buissness leaders can get away with. When someone mentions the minnimum wage I think as buissness owners you should think about the folks who struggle through life to make a living and raise a familly as best they can. You know as well as do I that you couldnt pay the dues at the country club on what people working for minnumum wage make in a year.
I think most people know where they fit into the big picture, but no one likes to be told there not worth much. When you say get a better job if you dont like minnimum wage. these people of simple means know they cant all be chiefs, there has to be some indians. Hambone
Posted by: hambone
Dear Rammer you are correct to a fault. People in this rich country of ours have to realize a few basic truths. first of all the working people of the U.S.A. have the ability to produce more goods and services than we as a people could possibly consume. Thus the entire population can not be employed simoultainiously. Not everyone can be CEO of some giant CO. Not everyone can be a doctor or a lawyer. We can not all have good paying jobs in a factory, nor can we all make a living driving a tractor trailer or being a fireman. we can not all walk into some warm cozy goverment job or be movie stars or dig graves or do autopsies.
You know Rammer if people got paid for the work that they did. Work being defined as (mass times movement equalls work) then dock workers and bricklayers and people performing physical labor would be the highest paid. But this is not the case people get paid, what they can get away with.
When Chrysler was up to there ass in trouble a short time ago Lee Iacoca agreed to try and save the company. He told the board of directors what he wanted in terms of money and stock options and the like. He also told them that he needed full authority to make the decisions that would be neccesary to save the company. The board had no choice but to give him what he wanted, Chrysler was going down and if Lee blew it they didnt have to pay him. After all if a company is broke they are not going to pay anyone the big bucks.
Was LEE worth $280,000,000.00 . I dont know, but he got away with it. The stockholders in Chrysler Corporation thought the man was God. Are surgeons worth $ 850,000.00 anually. Hell yes we expect them to be GOD,s. The president of the most powerfull country on earth makes about $327,000.00 anually. Is he worth it. Oh yea!!!
Now your probably wondering what the hell is this guys point. Well here we go, people have to be happy with who they are, they must be content with what they have ,where they live and how they enjoy there spare time. A rich man never really knows if the people surrounding him care about him or his money. The poor man may never know what its like to sit on the deck of a beach house in Malibu and let the warm summer breeze surround him. He will know the woman laying along side of him loves him for who he is, he will probably worry about how she would survive finnancially if something was to happen to him. The rich man and the poor man have more in common than they know.
The minnimum wage in this fine country is neither appauling nor excessive its what buissness leaders can get away with. When someone mentions the minnimum wage I think as buissness owners you should think about the folks who struggle through life to make a living and raise a familly as best they can. You know as well as do I that you couldnt pay the dues at the country club on what people working for minnumum wage make in a year.
I think most people know where they fit into the big picture, but no one likes to be told there not worth much. When you say get a better job if you dont like minnimum wage. these people of simple means know they cant all be chiefs, there has to be some indians. Hambone
Posted by: Farmr123
I hate to stir up an argument, but here goes. Yes, some, if not most of the corporations out there are greedy. But you can't legislate a better way of life for people. When the wages go up, so does rent, so does taxes, and so on to the point that it didn't do much good. My brother is on the school board here. They decided to give the teachers a raise. Guess what? A 50 cent an hour raise put them in a higher tax bracket, raising their take-home pay an incredible $4 a week. 50 cents an hour times 40 hours equals $4. Makes sense if you use fuzzy math hehe :) . While we are at it, let's get rid of greedy government (taxes that are too high) greedy lawyers (liability and med. insurance) and so forth. That is one reason why I farm. No rat race. If the tax collector or some lawyer shows up, we even have a nice abandon cellar to hide the body (just kidding). One problem facing us is that kids don't want to work any more. I'm not kidding on this. I am only 30 years old, but am seeing it here. I worked for 4 or 5 people in and immeadiately after high school doing various things. The jobs ranged from leveling grain in the local elevator by hand with a shovel (soybeans and to some extent corn will spoil much sooner if it is left in 'peaks' for long term storage) to making fence to digging in trenches. None of the guys I worked for do any of that any more? Why? Because they can't find anyone willing to actually WORK anymore unless they get $20 an hour, so it is cheaper to just get a backhoe or something. Some of the best paid jobs around here are carpenters and carpenter's helpers. It takes about a week's training to be an assistant to earn double min. wage. Why does it pay so much? It requires work. What is sad, though, are all the people stuck in a dead end job, that are doing the real work, and aren't getting paid for what they are doing, but I don't know how to fix it. Just my ramblings.
