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Posted by: KEGRACING
Several good comments in this thread, and I agree, most all of us here feel pretty much the same. We are legal, law abiding citizens... we have the right to bear arms!
While I get tired of the mailings from NRA, and I attended the national convention last weekend in St. Louis and told them so, they are the best thing we have going. I do not agree 100% with them on everything, but I do not agree with my wife 100% on everything either!
What ever you do, watch out for a couple of new groups that are billing themselves as alternatives to NRA... they are gun control scams... the last one out is the Union group. Do not get trapped until you really know the entire truth behind them. We know, with years of experience, that the NRA has one main goal, and that is to defend our 2nd amendment right.
Currently I live in IL, and this is not a gun friendly state. I have moved with my job several times in my life, and have had conceal carry permits in two states... I try to stay legal. IL has no CC law, one of only 3 states left without, and it does not look good any time soon to change that. NRA has put a lot of money into trying to help, it is just too left wing here for now.
I am in the same camp with most people with any common sense, if some one wants a gun they will get one... We will not stop criminals from getting guns... never ever! And if some one wants to hurt or kill others, especially if they are willing to die to do so, they will find a way to do it. If the anti gun groups would spend half of their money on getting the criminals off the streets, and keeping them off, we would all be safer!
For now, I will do the best I can to protect my family. I will try to raise my children right. I will defend myself when necessary...
Remember... BETTER JUDGED BY 12 THAN CARRIED BY SIX!
Ken.
Posted by: OhHell
Hitler was also a big advocate on banning guns.
The main reason people want to take our guns away is they know (they are doing) (or have done) (or planning to do) something that would deserve a gun being used against them.
A fine example would be the lawmakers raping the constitution.
Posted by: SPD522
Buy as many guns as you can face to face where no paperwork is done. Keep those guns stored in a safe place in case it all goes down and those they can trace to you via paperwork are confiscated. At least you have something to fall back on when the SHTF. Have plenty of ammo and magazines for each gun stored in an airtight package to prevent corrosion.
Just a thought...
Posted by: SPD522
Let's take a hypothetical situation where the antis get their wishes and ban all guns. As stated, they will only take them from the law abiding and not those with criminal intent.
The ban manages to forbid the sale and possession of guns by civilians. That leaves the gun makers with only the police, military, and export market. None of the gun makers will stay in business very long. Why? Because the police, military, and export market is but a small share of the overall sales. The civilian market for self defense, hunting, sport shooting, and collecting is where all the money is made. They are the entree for the manufacturers. Police and military are the dessert. You can't survive on dessert alone.
Take away the civilian market, and the manufacturers cannot afford to stay in business. Those other markets are all by bid and low bid wins. You can't keep a big factory in business and profitable by only selling to low bid. So the factories close.
The towns where the factories were suddenly have a big jump in unemployed workers. The economy takes a big hit. The police and military markets start losing suppliers. The weapons they need are no longer available. The USA is having trouble getting weapons to it's soldiers.
There is the snowball effect. With no guns, there is little need for ammunition. So these factories also start shutting down. More workers unemployed. More lost tax revenues to the cities, states, and US to keep up with the day to day expenses. Not to mention the non-gun related businesses that suffer when high unemployment cuts into the abilities of the public to buy consumer goods.
Companies that manufacture accessories for guns also lose. Not much need for rifle scopes, slings, bipods, gun cases, reloading supplies , and so on if there aren't guns out there needing them. So these companies lay off workers and eventually close too. More unemployment and less money for the economy to survive.
Then we have the hunters. Many have been laid off because their business was related to guns, guns accessories, or suppliers of products or raw materials used by those industries. Or, because of the mass unemployment, the consumer products they do manufacture are not being sold in the quantities they used to be. So they got laid off too, even though their jobs had nothing to do with guns.
The former hunters don't have guns to hunt with even if they could afford to. They can't afford to travel to other states to hunt. So those states that take in millions to billions every year from hunting and shooting related industries, start getting hurt. Restaurants, motels, gas stations lose. Millions of hunters who used to provide healthy game on their families dinner tables are no longer able to do so.
Every state has a Game and Fish department. With no hunters, they cannot control the wildlife populations effectively. Animal populations explode. Many die due to starvation when there are more animals than the land can sustain. Animals start coming into cities searching for food. Many become vicious and attack people and pets. Vehicle/animal crashes rise at alarming rates causing human deaths. Naturally car insurance rates skyrocket and less people can afford insurance since they aren't working anyway. Not to mention the lost revenues from hunting licenses. So the Game and Fish departments cannot help keep our forests and waters in healthy condition.
The economy nationwide starts to nosedive. The stockmarket crashes with companies of all types losing money. With record unemployment, crime rises dramatically. The undermaned and undergunned police cannot keepup with it. Murders, assaults, and thefts soar. With the civilian population effectively disarmed, they are easy targets for the criminals. And with many people facing death by starvation, they are forced to commit crimes against their fellow man that they would never have otherwise considered, just to survive.
The government steps in and declares martial law in an attempt to control the chaos. We become prisoners in our free country. All because some near sighted folks decided to put the blame on an inanimate object instead of dealing with the real source of the problem.
Craig
Posted by: 440EX026
I think gun control is something everyone should learn before owning a gun. What good would it be if you cant control it anyhow.
OK seriously this whole issue has become more of a fight between the left and right or liberals and conservatives with both sides so concerned with winning that rational thinking or our protections under the constitution (very nicely laid out above !!!) seem to be forgotten.
Though I have never seen a gun pick itself up and shoot anyone lets forgoe the whole "people kill people" thing for a moment, and just consider the other obvious issues.
Any weapon can be used to harm or kill someone, and there are also literally thousands of other devices that can be made to do just the same thing so if your diligent enough you can use most anything as a weapon. Does this mean pretty much everything needs to be controlled, or kept away from the american public?
Another issue that always seems to be forgotten is that in areas where gun controll is strongest (NYC, phila, CA, il, NJ etc etc) Both violent crimes and murders involving guns continue to happen in very large numbers. I dont have stats, but it does seem that these numbers are higher than in other areas with less restriction. So much for control.
Our country had pushed the idea of different types of deterants on the public for years during the cold war. It isnt a secret to anyone paying attention that keeping both sides in similar arms strength was thought to also keep both from doing anything "stupid". Does not the same apply here?
I guess there are more arguments against additional restrictions than for it (maybe why the majority of the country has reasonable gun laws), and the debate will continue on, but if you consider the one major reason for the right in the first place was to avoid the potential problem of the govt taking over the people it was designed to serve it just doesnt seem proper to continue to attempt to rob this right from the citizens thru unusual restriction.
Things are different all over the world, and even in our country, but no matter how bad an occurance may be (this last one in VA was very sad, and a total trajedy) its just not right to try to fix a totally unrelated problem thru tearing apart the very laws that were used to establish the civilization we so enjoy.
Just a thought but if this nut in VA had used a homemade flame thrower, pipe bombs, bottle bombs, chemicals or some other simple but just as deadly weapon would there be calls to control the basic items used to create those things?
I think it honestly all comes back to the intent of the left to turn our society into some kind of a socialist disaster where we are nothing more than brainwashed followers looking to the govt for everything (yes including protection, income, thoughts, and most recently bringing up our children).
Sorry for the rant, but something just isnt right, and fixing the wrong problems just isnt helping any.
Posted by: 440EX026
Quote
Originally posted by: DeeDawg
I don?t think we will get much argument in this form; sportsmen seem to think alike. We are just preaching to the choir in here. What each of us needs to do is put our thoughts together and make sound and logical aurguments and post them on left wing blogs. Nothing drives them nuts more than a reasonable argument. I?ve been band from several because I use reason and logic. I never make personal attacks, even when I am called everything in the books. I merely point out the incorrect information they are attempting to pass off.
QUOTE FOR TODAY:
"Law-abiding firearms owners who choose to own a gun to defend themselves or their families are part of the solution and not part of the problem." Attorney Chuck Michel
Excellent points!!
Now post up some links so I can go have a battle of wits with some unarmed opponets BR>
Posted by: 440EX026
Quote
Originally posted by: DeeDawg
Originally posted by swampyjunior:
QUOTE OF THE DAY:
By definition, to be a modern liberal is to be either a knave or a fool. Lowell Ponte, March 16, 2007
Had to quote that quote BR>
I guess the only ones that honestly arent fools are those that are profiting greatly from all the fools that follow or align with them.
And if guns were not enough for these sorry arse saps locally here there trying to ban pretty much everything one piece at a time, and the current addition to the "Shake Down State" is a small town that now can fine anyone $250.00 who is found to be smoking anything in a car that is also occupied by a minor. They are only systematically removing all our rights one by one, and this "save" the children crap is what they hide behind.
Ever wonder what is a politicians true motivation when there pushing unbelievable new laws down our throats (gun control, or religion, or whatever)? Well the answer seems to always be the same, and it has little if not nothing to do with the acts or people involved. What I have found over the years that everything from the smallest nuiance laws to the more impacting etc is that the end result is something desired by a large contributor or group etc.
Even all the feel good laws like the ones on mandatory seat belt use were not for anyones actual safety etc, but little more than a favor to the insurance lobbys who found their use reduced the cost of their claims. Does that mean more people are less severely injured, or just that costs involved are lower? From what I have been told there is little difference in the fatalitly rates, but a large decrease in the overly expensive plastic surgery bills (and others).
With the recent accident that almost took the life of our states gov who wasnt wearing one, you can bet this law is currently being scrutinzed by the public.
I could post a laundry list of rediculous laws here, and I hope you guys in the "real America" can stop their continuing spread accross the country.
People may complain of problems with the republican majority in the house and admin of recent years, but living in a state that has seen the opposing democrapic party have complete rule for many years I can tell you its no coincidence that NJ has seen more financial and corruption problems than any other, and at the same time has become closer to a socialist or police state.
Those who are either employed or supported by the govt in any way have outnumbered those working in the private sector here for years now, and we have enough law enforcement to shame some countries army's (good thing I guess cause many friends and family are in the ranks lol), and we wonder why gun control is so fierce here, but cant explain why crime is out of control.
So use this sorry arse state as an example why there can not be any more nonsense from these panzy arse liberals, and be sure to do your best to keep them out of office especially in any national capacity!!
Posted by: 440EX026
Quote
Originally posted by: squeege
Here in pa a lawmaker has introduced a bill to require every gun to be registered and a yearly $10 per gun fee.....a lot of unhappy law abiding gun owners here protesting.
click
You guys better be protesting loud and clear so that you show the reps in PA your not going to accept their nonsense etc or the cancer that is NJ will just spread right across your state too.
To be honest I think a big part of what allows the losses of our rights to continue is that there are just so many urban areas in our state that are home to so many people who are just removed from nature or the many aspects of it, and then with the attributes of city life like believing everything just comes to you in a package or a restaurant, and more importantly out of site out of mind and combine all this with uncontrolable govt services at every turn and people just become accustomed to having the govt take care of their needs etc. to the point they forget to actually think for themselves.
In fairness there are millions of people here who are not part of this, or are just like everyone else etc, but with the combined resources (money!!) of those in states like NJ, CA, NY, CT etc etc that are bleeding hearts they carry lots of influence that can effect political direction.
Fight for what you have so that you dont have these issues locally because once there gone its nearly impossible to get them back (your rights!!)
Posted by: twentycharacters
"GUN CONTROL" only keeps guns away from law abiding citizens who have a right to have them for hunting and protection and sport. you disarm the people the gov and whomever else becomes more powerful...i think this was done before....in germany. it kinda led to a jack@ss, evil ____ dictator killing allot of innocent people and trying to take over the world. washington dc has no weapons...their crime is high. in london (citizens cant own any) and the cops dont even carry guns... go ask them how thats working out.
if we had law of the old west i wonder how things would be? i think some would think twice before going on a rampage or trying to start stuff. im not saying pop everyone who attempts a problem there has to be PEOPLE and TEMPER control but if everyone has a gun they could protect themselves and deter things. countries do it all the time. one country stated that "as long as we have bombs (nuclear) no one would dare attack us." its true. no country on earth will attempt it. they will be annihalated if they do.
Posted by: swampyjunior
Gun control mean HITTING YOUR TARGET!
Also, I cannot reccomend nor would I suggest that we all go and join the NRA as there have been quite a few things that the NRA has endorsed that myself and many others DO NOT agree with 100%. Take the recent basting and blasting of the outdoor life writer (Jim Zumbo, I think) as a case and point. The NRA, Remington and many others who push gun owners rights slaughtered him for a single misrepresented remark. Despite the years of support and good he had done for gun rights and the sport of hunting. Sort of killing our own there.
This is America and each of us is allowed to have our own opinion and not have others opinions forced upon us. Which I feel the NRA and other gun control lobbyists do at times.
SJ
Posted by: 700vtwinman
The truth about gun control is using both hands to steady the gun before pulling the trigger......LOL. Now that is true gun control, the rest of what congress wants to do is nothing more than take away more of our freedoms. GUN CONTROL.....JUST HIT YOUR TARGET!......LOL
Posted by: pwillie
All the anti gun folks will be out i after your congressman to ban hi-capacity firearms! Whats your take?
Posted by: pwillie
Very good responce!My take is moderation,I think some restrictions should be in place,but don't penalize a hard working citizen with a clean history. I said citizen.The Korean was not a citizen,and I don't see how our Govt. can let a person that is not a citizen of this country have a permit to own a gun. What is their responsibility? As for as weapons go, there were more people killed with nitro and diesel fuel than firearms,so if there is a nut about,they can find ways to kill you,look whats happening in Iraq!The only reason the need of a high capacity firearm is to meet force with force.I own many firearms and see a problem in the future as more and more people trade in their guns for computers and such,kids are playing games and surfing more than doing outside activities...so we are losing numbers of gun enthusiest..and votes.....
Posted by: pwillie
I don't completely agree with the NRA either, I told them that I was tired of getting redundant mail and asking for money. I also told them they could save a lot of money by not sending me and others who are members,the same junk mail over and over..thats very expensive,and costs a lot of money.the same money that could be used in a good lobby position.If we don't govern ourselves,the anti-firearms people will do it for us.The NRA,unfortunately is all we have,we need new blood in the association.At the top!
Posted by: pwillie
They haven't banned ammonia nitrate or diesel fuel! The single most people killed, in Okalahoma City!!!!!By one truck and one driver....they weren't students,but dead just the same.....Point is, if you want to carry out a crime,it is impossible to stop a person that has the freedom as you do in this country.
Posted by: pwillie
AMEN!!!!!
Posted by: ss97
The one simple and undeniable fact is that gun laws do not work!
I have no problem with each legal gun buyer having a full and thorough background check. In the case of the VT shootings it might have prevented the legal sale. But it would not have prevented the shootings. This psycho would have simply purchased illegal firearms to commit his murderous rampage.
The problem is that gun laws put more guns into criminal hands, and less into the general public's. An intelligent, trained, and sensible gun owner, is a safe gun owner. And could be the first line of defense in many cases. In many cases it could be the only line of defense. Had even one student been able to carry, this could have been a far different story.
You cannot rely on the police to protect you. Fact is, they cannot, and they are not liable to do so. Our law enforcement, by in large, is reactionary. They chase the criminal after the crime. And in rare, lucky cases, they might prevent it. This is not a knock on law enforcement, they do the best they can. But there is only so much they can do, for they too are limited by the law.
The reality is that this world is messed up. Schools are a prime target because murderous fiends know they will face no opposition, they know that no one will be armed and able to stop them. Those people were literally sitting ducks for this madman, and I feel horrible for the families of the dead, it is horrible. I feel bad for the people who lived, and will have to carry the images in their minds forever.....
Posted by: DeeDawg
I don't think we will get much argument in this form; sportsmen seem to think alike. We are just preaching to the choir in here. What each of us needs to do is put our thoughts together and make sound and logical aurguments and post them on left wing blogs. Nothing drives them nuts more than a reasonable argument. I've been band from several because I use reason and logic. I never make personal attacks, even when I am called everything in the books. I merely point out the incorrect information they are attempting to pass off.
QUOTE FOR TODAY:
"Law-abiding firearms owners who choose to own a gun to defend themselves or their families are part of the solution and not part of the problem." Attorney Chuck Michel
Posted by: DeeDawg
Originally posted by swampyjunior: I cannot reccomend nor would I suggest that we all go and join the NRA as there have been quite a few things that the NRA has endorsed that myself and many others DO NOT agree with 100%.
That is ridicules. There isn't a single person or organization in the world that I agree with 100% of the time, including myself. Haven't you ever thought to yourself - I shouldn't have done/said that? Maybe I should have done/said this instead? Everyone has, and to say you don't agree 100% with an organization that has over a million people is silly.
QUOTE OF THE DAY:
By definition, to be a modern liberal is to be either a knave or a fool. Lowell Ponte, March 16, 2007
Posted by: DeeDawg
Good points. Americans are having our freedoms taken one tiny step at a time.
QUOTE OF THE DAY:
"The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule." -Mencken (prominent newspaperman, book reviewer, and political commentator)
Posted by: DeeDawg
Originally posted by squeege: Here in pa a lawmaker has introduced a bill to require every gun to be registered and a yearly $10 per gun fee.....a lot of unhappy law abiding gun owners here protesting.
Where is the NAALCP (National Association for Advancement of Liberal Colored People)? Aren?t they supposed to fight for our Constitutional rights, or are they too busy fighting for the rights of illegal aliens?
QUOTE FOR TODAY:
"The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule." -Mencken (prominent newspaperman, book reviewer, and political commentator)
Posted by: squeege
he Bill of Rights plays a central role in American law and government, and remains a fundamental symbol of the freedoms and culture of the nation. BR>
The United States Bill of Rights consists of the first ten amendments to the United States Constitution. These amendments limit the powers of the federal government, protecting the rights of all citizens, residents and visitors on United States territory. Among the enumerated rights these amendments guarantee are the freedom of speech, the freedom of the press, the freedom of assembly, the free exercise of religion, the freedom to petition, the people's right to keep and bear arms, and the rights to be free of unreasonable search and seizure, cruel and unusual punishment, and compelled self-incrimination. The Bill of Rights also restricts Congress's power by prohibiting it from making any law respecting establishment of religion and by prohibiting the federal government from depriving any person of life, liberty, or property without due process of law. In criminal cases, it requires indictment by grand jury for any capital or "infamous crime," guarantees a speedy public trial with an impartial and local jury, and prohibits double jeopardy. In addition, the Bill of Rights states that "the enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people,"[1] and reserves all powers not granted to the Federal government to the citizenry or States.
These amendments came into effect on December 15, 1791, when ratified by three-fourths of the States. Most were applied to the states by a series of decisions applying the due process clause of the Fourteenth Amendment, which was adopted after the American Civil War.
Initially drafted by James Madison in 1789, the Bill of Rights was written at a time when ideological conflict between Federalists and anti-Federalists, dating from the Philadelphia Convention in 1787, threatened the Constitution's ratification. The Bill was influenced by George Mason's 1776 Virginia Declaration of Rights, the 1689 English Bill of Rights, works of the Age of Enlightenment pertaining to natural rights, and earlier English political documents such as the Magna Carta (1215). The Bill was largely a response to the Constitution's influential opponents, including prominent Founding Fathers, who argued that it failed to protect the basic principles of human liberty.
The Bill of Rights plays a central role in American law and government, and remains a fundamental symbol of the freedoms and culture of the nation. One of the original fourteen copies of the Bill of Rights is on public display at the National Archives in Washington, D.C.
The original document proposed by Congress actually contained twelve "Articles" of proposed amendment. However, only the third through twelfth articles, corresponding to what became the First through Tenth Amendments to the Constitution, were ratified by the required number of states by 1791. The first Article, dealing with the number and apportionment of members of the House of Representatives, never became part of the Constitution. The second Article, limiting the ability of Congress to increase the salaries of its members, was ratified two centuries later as the 27th Amendment. The term "Bill of Rights" has traditionally meant only the ten amendments that became part of the Constitution in 1791, and not the first two, which dealt with Congress itself rather than the rights of the people. That traditional usage has continued even since the ratification of the 27th Amendment.
Posted by: squeege
Here in pa a lawmaker has introduced a bill to require every gun to be registered and a yearly $10 per gun fee.....a lot of unhappy law abiding gun owners here protesting.
click
Posted by: ctateusa1
GUN CONTROL is BS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
There is no such thing as gun control all that the "gun control" is is a deterent for law abiding citizens to not be able to buy guns.
I am a convicted felon(stupid mistake in the past no one got hurt, and no one could have gotten hurt). I can not buy or own firearms by law. Let me tell you though if I really wanted to I could buy at least ten this weekend. All a felon has to do is look in the paper and buy from an individual, no paper trail and no background check.
If I wanted to I could buy any kind of gun that I wanted everything from a sniper rifle if I had about 1800.00 to ak47, sks, 9mm, .45, a 50 cal.
GUN CONTROL does not exist. PERIOD. It is a dream that politicians use to get votes. They lure in the unaware and the gullible and ruin a true sportsmans ability to hunt and have fun. No a person does not need a m-14 to hunt a fricking deer with. But be resonable a person should be able to own firearms to protect themselves and their property. They should be able to have them to use for recreational shooting and hunting and that is what they are meant to do.
I no longer get to enjoy hunting that was a favorite pasttime of mine and I dearly long to have it back but it will never be that way, I can still buy my hunting liscense and hunt, just nothing with a trigger, unfortunatly I suck with a bow.
I hope that some people that were unaware or gullible read this and realize that even GUN CONTROL will not stop the real criminals from getting guns if I can get one at any time, from anyone except a liscensed dealer that has to run background checks.
Most guns will be sold at least 4-6 times between individuals, I know I still owned 8 guns after my conviction, that I sold over the next couple of years. I still own 3 guns now that are not in my name and I actually have not even held or seen in the past 4 years. I will never have them in my possesion because I dont want to lose them. So hopefully my father in law will be alive 15 more years for my daughter to become legal to own firearms, so that I can have them passed to her. Some of them will be worth a lot of money by then but I hope she will enjoy them and not sell them like I did.
Posted by: SawHugger
This story came out on associated press today. (copy and paste)
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/R/RIOS_SLUM_MILITIAS?SITE=MOSPL&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT
Posted by: Rekd
Quote
Originally posted by: pabst660r
shoot em....HAHAHAHA!
guns don`t kill people...i kill people (with humor).
Yer killin' me, pabst!
Hah!
Seriously, I'm hard core against gun control, but this Cho-mamma guy shouldn't have gotten one.
Posted by: pabst660r
shoot em....HAHAHAHA!
guns don`t kill people...i kill people (with humor).
Posted by: shrapmetal
want to feel sick? check out this proposed bill. read it carefully as it bans every gun ever designed for military or police use.
http://www.govtrack.us/congress/billtext.xpd?bill=h110-1022
Posted by: booboobear
join the NRA they help protect are rights for the people who hunt, and own guns, and they will never be able to control the guns, they have problems already with automatics, and assault rifles
Posted by: RNKracker
From the responses I am probably preaching to the choir but here's some food for thought:
---One only has to read some of the writings in the Federalists Papers to see that the authors of our Constitution with its Bill of Rights wanted an armed population (of civilians) to keep the federal government from becoming too overbearing against its citizens .... in other words to keep the government in check (we haven't done a very good job folks)!!!!
---If we are going to pick and choose which Amendments to the Constitution we will adhere to (like the "gun banners" want to do) we could easily ban the Islamics from America. Right now radical elements of that religion want to see our dear country destroyed. To me that sounds like a good reason(using emotional thinking) to drive ALL Islamics out....in essence "ban" them! Yet the free practice of religion is guaranteed in the Bill of Rights ...... and this American stands by that!! The Islamo-Fascist stay and practice the law abiding aspects of their religion, I don't like it, but I defend their right to stay!
---The Second Amendment should have the support of ALL Americans too. But many, on the Right (Mayor Bloomberg, Mayor of NYC, Rudy Guiiani, Republican presidential candidate) as well as the Left( most Democrats....especially from the North and East along with Kalifornia) want to wipe it off the books. Their plan is to do it in increments.....first the semi autos that "shoot many rounds" and "look like military guns". Then any semi auto (ie: your shotgun for duck hunting, etc.). Then pump/bolt actions that hold more than 3 rounds. Then ANY firearm. This is well documented strategy!
---The right of self defense SHOULD be the MOST fundamantal right we as humans have. Take away my methos of self defense you take away my life (potentially). Police response times are 99% of the time not quick enough to prevent disaster.
---Firearms are used to approximately 450,000 times a year in the commission of a crime. They (firearms) are used approximately 2.5 million times a year in self-defense/prevention of crime.
---Last but not least............It is the Second Amendment of the Bill of Rights that guarantees all the other Rights. Without an armed population the federal government can become as oppressive as it wants to be (see: the confiscation of legal firearms in New Orleans post Hurricane Katrina .... weapons being used for defense against roving bands of looters/anarchists).
Couple of quotes to chew on:
The tree of liberty must be watered with the blood of patriots from time to time!
or
Ammunition....the currency of the new milleneum!
Cho was a chump and a calculating psychotic ...... several armed citizens could have severely minimized the damage and heartache this freak caused ...... all the "gun control" in the world would have had no effect but to delay his acts or cause him to use another method!
If you'll notice, most of these mass killings occur in "gun free" zones!!!!! Humph! The citizens are disarmed and nearly defenseless!
Posted by: RNKracker
Quote
Originally posted by: swampyjunior
Gun control mean HITTING YOUR TARGET!
Also, I cannot reccomend nor would I suggest that we all go and join the NRA as there have been quite a few things that the NRA has endorsed that myself and many others DO NOT agree with 100%. Take the recent basting and blasting of the outdoor life writer (Jim Zumbo, I think) as a case and point. The NRA, Remington and many others who push gun owners rights slaughtered him for a single misrepresented remark. Despite the years of support and good he had done for gun rights and the sport of hunting. Sort of killing our own there.
This is America and each of us is allowed to have our own opinion and not have others opinions forced upon us. Which I feel the NRA and other gun control lobbyists do at times.
SJ
If you go on the premise that all gunowners are members of the family, you'd have to surmise that Zumbo turned on his own .... and the pack responded. Zumbo is now back in the fold with a little remedial education by Unka Ted! Zumbo gave the antis ammunition to hurt us (gun owners) all! True Zumbo has represented the HUNTERS well for a long time .... but if we ALL (hunters AND shooters) don't stick together on this thing we'll all lose our gun owning rights! Buddy, you really need to realize.......the Second Amendment ain't about hunting !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
And if the NRA isn't fighting for YOUR right to own and bear then just who with more clout is....?????? Huh???? I'll answer it for you.....NOBODY !!!!!!!!
Now I don't agree with all things or ways of the NRA . But name me one organization you're in total agreement with ...... I'll answer that one for you too ....... NONE! The truth of the matter is we are (or should be) individuals with ONE goal ..... the right to own and bear arms......and the NRA is in your corner with alot of clout. But with the more money ($$$$$$$$) they have the more thay are able to influence the political process! Every gun owner in America should ante up the pittance of cash for the yearly dues......or you ain't got a hair on your.....well never mind!!!!!!!!
I'm not trying to force an opinion on you or anyone ......... but now is the time for gun owners to stand up and be counted..........what have any of you done to insure your right to own and bear????? The NRA gets the most bang for the buck!!!!!
Posted by: RNKracker
Quote
Originally posted by: 440EX026
Quote
Originally posted by: squeege
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To be honest I think a big part of what allows the losses of our rights to continue is that there are just so many urban areas in our state that are home to so many people who are just removed from nature or the many aspects of it, and then with the attributes of city life like believing everything just comes to you in a package or a restaurant, and more importantly out of site out of mind and combine all this with uncontrolable govt services at every turn and people just become accustomed to having the govt take care of their needs etc. to the point they forget to actually think for themselves.
Very power posting here!
The answer is to be extremely knowlegeable with logical arguments ......and ..... educate these urbanites that have little or no exposure to realities!
