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Posted by: 250r4ever
We rode Glamis dunes last year and went again this year and the paddle tire was a must if you wanted to keep up with everyone else. A paddle tire will make your trip so much easier . I was on a 400 ex the first day with hole shots on the rear and struggled on most all of the steeper dunes . Purchased a pair of sand stars the next day and never looked back.
Posted by: PaulV
Hey you guy with the CR500's,
I'm going to Glamis for Halloween and I'm taking my brothers 87 CR500 it has a pro circuit pipe and a UNI filter what jet size should I run?
thanks for the help.
Posted by: RacinJason
No you didn't...you are correct about the amount of load bieng increased...as far as having problems...I've never experienced any problems
Posted by: bigblock2stroke
Why bump the jets?
I rode YZ125 with paddle and 110 sold at the shop near the dunes (anyone know what its called) and it ripped. Didn't need to change the jets.
He will absolutely need a paddle tire though.
Posted by: bigblock2stroke
I can see chain and sprocket quicker only because of riding in the sand (ie sand blasting), but I don't understand the trans loading problem. Wouldn't you also have clutch problems too? What is it about the paddle that makes it hard on clutches and trans missions other that most of the riding is WOT speed shifting as you approach the hill? Trail riding would be extra hard on the clutch cause you are always using it.
Sand paddle is a must. I've only ridden at Silver Lake as far as dunes (only one around).
Buddy had his CR250 at SL without paddle and he couldn't keep up with the paddled yz125 with us. Plus it was very difficult to ride because the front wheel won't come up and you'll have to fight the sand to keep from falling over.
All 3 riders tried it and all 3 decided there was no way. You may not regret it if you don't get to ride a bike with a paddle on it, but if you do get to ride someone's with a paddle on it, you'll be over at DavidAllenRacing across the street for sure. $60 for tire, $20 to put it on a rim. You have to take the rim off though.
Posted by: motox26
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Originally posted by: 1of4Horsemen
Isn't that the whole point of the tire? To grab and get traction? Whether it's a knobby on hard pack or a paddle in sand. Thats the tires purpose.
This is what I was going to post! What about in dirt or anywhere you get good traction, and tranny's seem to do fine on dirt, LOL. Especially 4-strokes on the track, I have seen a lot of them ripping off the knobbies and I have a tire to prove it, not to much slippage there.
Posted by: motox26
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Originally posted by: cr125predator
Like i said i cant explain it very well, but i took that advice from a guy that knows more about motors than anybody i know and has more experiance than anybody i know. i guarantee that he could explain it better than i can. As far as the paddle thing goes i get the point of what you are all trying to say but i just dont like them and would not normally use one.
So your saying out of ALL the dedicated riders on this forums, that none of them know engines as well as this guy?
Posted by: 2mnyToyz
I use to ride a CR500 at the dunes...
If you know your bike, you'll know when to re-jet. The oregon dunes have cool air blowing off from the ocean and is cooler than where I ride locally, so I re-jetted for the altitude and air temp. But found that I did have to increase more than what I normally do. The riding style is more wide-open than mid-range. Had buddies burn up a motor pretty quickly because they didn't pay attention to how the bike was running. Run it, and listen to the motor there is a distinct sound. If you can't tell that way, do a plug check. Another way to tell is that if your bike runs better than it ever did before, you'll probably on the verge of a melt-down, check your plug.
Dirt vs. Paddle... Go without a paddle if you don't want to buy one. You'll get around ok without a paddle if you have a fresh aggressive knobbie, like a Dunlop 752 or Michelin M1. Paddle tires help greatly in deep soft sand, but I've found they're not required, but paddle tires make it more fun.
Riding in the dunes is kinda like being in a boat. It plows a little at slow speeds, but speed up a little and it planes out and you float on top of the sand. Takes a few minutes to get use to. Turning... lean it sharply into the corner to plow the front tire in and grab gears and a fist full of throttle. The bike doesn't react like it's on dirt, it will slip and spin at slow speeds.
It's a kick, just don't go shooting off dunes without checking out the other side first...
Posted by: rescuediver
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Originally posted by: 2mnyToyz
It's a kick, just don't go shooting off dunes without checking out the other side first...
Best advice to give, when riding dunes for the first timeBR>
As far as paddles hurting a transmissionI don't see the correlation between the two.
Posted by: mywifesquad
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Originally posted by: Wakeboarder
my friend has a dirtbike, 125 2 stroke kawasaki and i dont know much about them and i ride a kfx400 and i was wondering if his bike would make it in the sand dunes or not enough power, i ride at silverlake
It will make a huge difference if he gets a paddle tire.
Posted by: mywifesquad
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Originally posted by: Wakeboarder
so whats the verdict paddle or no paddle
Im not sure about the sand where you are going, but at pismo my kids on a YZ80 with no paddle struggled to climb any big dune(and yes I know that pismo doesnt have big dunes) With a paddle they got air at the top of those same dunes the next year.
Posted by: mywifesquad
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Originally posted by: cr125predator
It really f**ks up your tranny though.
Do you have any proof of this claim? I have been using paddle tires for over 20 years on dirt bikes and have never had any tranny problems.
Your correct that a paddle tire will help a "TON" though, and the bike will be much less tiring to ride in the sand too.
Posted by: mywifesquad
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Originally posted by: cr125predator
oh, i am not saying that it will mess it up your first time out, or the second or third or for a year or 2 or 3 etc etc. What i am saying is that over the long haul (and if your riding it a lot) it could do a lot of damage on your bike. You will also go through chains and sprockets a lot quicker.
My 85 CR500 has spent approximately 400 hours at pismo over its life time, all of it with a paddle tire. Back in the early 80's you had to have paddle tires specially made. I had one made for my '82 CR480 after my first trip to the sand. I did split the cases on the 500 after about 1600 hours total and replaced 2 of the 6 bearings in the tranny. It is on its 2nd clutch, but cmon, it's a 20 year old dirt bike. And just so you know, mud is much harder on chains than sand could ever be.
Posted by: mywifesquad
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Originally posted by: cr125predator
It also depends on how you ride, how much you ride and how you take care of your bike. Like i said though, you can go for a long time with a paddle, but i dont reccomend it. Plus its way more of a challenge and way more fun to me without a paddle IMO. To me its like stand up jet skis compared to sit downs. The sit downs are easier but the stand ups are WAY more fun.
Do you even have a paddle tire for your bike? I cant imagine anyone having a paddle tire and not using it. If you cant afford one, then it makes sense. Other than that I cant imagine some one not reccomending a paddle tire to some one.
Posted by: mywifesquad
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Originally posted by: cr125predator
No, i dont have a paddle, but if i wanted one that would not be a big deal. There is a tire shop right down the street from me and i could get one there for pretty cheap. Plus i have rode with one on another bike and didnt like it very much.
Like i said i cant explain it very well, but i took that advice from a guy that knows more about motors than anybody i know and has more experiance than anybody i know. i guarantee that he could explain it better than i can. As far as the paddle thing goes i get the point of what you are all trying to say but i just dont like them and would not normally use one.
I should have looked at your profile sooner and seen your age. That Im sorry for. However, I will tell you that the guy your getting info from is dead wrong about tranny damage. Riding in sand is probubly the easiest thing your tranny ever does. It is a little tough on the engine because of the constant load and high RPM's.
I do wonder why you have paddle for your quad and not your dirt bike. Quads are definitely easy to ride in the sand without them, dirt bikes are a completely different machine in the sand with one. What did you not like about riding a dirt bike with a paddle tire on it?
Posted by: mywifesquad
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Originally posted by: cr125predator
Well, i just went to dirt bike shop and asked the head mechanic about using a paddle, he said that on a 125 it doesnt have enough power to pull it and on a 250 its not a good idea but its not even close to being as bad as on a 125
I hate to say it, but that mechanic is not very smart, or experienced.Not that he isnt a good mechanic, but he is extremely ignorant in his knowledge of the use of paddle tires. My YZ80 used 6 paddles on its tire, pulled it perfectly and the bike was almost useless without it. A 125 can easily pull a 6 paddles also. My sons use 8 paddles on their 250's and I use 10 paddles on my CR500. Paddle tires can be used on all sizes of machines, you just need to put the corect one on each individual machine. I have seen 50cc quads with paddle tires on them, and they get around OK.
Posted by: cr125predator
Yea, he will be fine. You really dont even need a paddle. I never ride with one and i do fine.
Posted by: cr125predator
Ok, a paddle will help a TON, no doubt. It really f**ks up your tranny though. Depending on the sand i might use one also, like at glamis for instance. But i dont know how the sand is at silverlake but if it is anything like pismo you dont need it.
Posted by: cr125predator
oh, i am not saying that it will mess it up your first time out, or the second or third or for a year or 2 or 3 etc etc. What i am saying is that over the long haul (and if your riding it a lot) it could do a lot of damage on your bike. You will also go through chains and sprockets a lot quicker.
Posted by: cr125predator
Well, its kind of hard to explain. I will do my best, but lets say you have a regular knobby tire on. Your gears will have some slippage in them, which is good. If you have a paddle on it is always "biting" on your gears. Since the paddles are not very close to each other there is a little slippage and the cup hits the sand and it "bites" and it does that over and over again. Especially when you jump, because when your in air your gears spin freely and then when you come down it grabs and kind of binds them up.
that was the best i could explain it, i am not sure if it made much sense or not.
Posted by: cr125predator
It also depends on how you ride, how much you ride and how you take care of your bike. Like i said though, you can go for a long time with a paddle, but i dont reccomend it. Plus its way more of a challenge and way more fun to me without a paddle IMO. To me its like stand up jet skis compared to sit downs. The sit downs are easier but the stand ups are WAY more fun.
Posted by: cr125predator
No, i dont have a paddle, but if i wanted one that would not be a big deal. There is a tire shop right down the street from me and i could get one there for pretty cheap. Plus i have rode with one on another bike and didnt like it very much.
Like i said i cant explain it very well, but i took that advice from a guy that knows more about motors than anybody i know and has more experiance than anybody i know. i guarantee that he could explain it better than i can. As far as the paddle thing goes i get the point of what you are all trying to say but i just dont like them and would not normally use one.
Posted by: cr125predator
well, it does put a lot of load on your tranny riding with a paddle. No i am not saying that this guy i know knows more than anybody on here, but i take his advice. You guys could be right though.
As for a paddle on a quad, notice how much smaller the tire actually is. And i have only used a paddle once with my quad and that was because the sand was super soft. I even said i would use a paddle on my dirtbike if the sand was super soft.
Posted by: cr125predator
well, i guess i have to say i am beat. since this was info from a friend i cant respond well enough. who knows maybe i should try riding with a paddle again
Posted by: cr125predator
come to think of it i have never heard of anybody having trouble with a paddle either. i just made myself look like a complete a$$
Posted by: cr125predator
Well, i just went to dirt bike shop and asked the head mechanic about using a paddle, he said that on a 125 it doesnt have enough power to pull it and on a 250 its not a good idea but its not even close to being as bad as on a 125
Posted by: yellowrider250ex
yea it will be fine. tell him to bump the jets up a size or to before you go
Posted by: Wakeboarder
my friend has a dirtbike, 125 2 stroke kawasaki and i dont know much about them and i ride a kfx400 and i was wondering if his bike would make it in the sand dunes or not enough power, i ride at silverlake
Posted by: Wakeboarder
so whats the verdict paddle or no paddle
Posted by: 1of4Horsemen
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Originally posted by: cr125predator
Well, its kind of hard to explain. I will do my best, but lets say you have a regular knobby tire on. Your gears will have some slippage in them, which is good. If you have a paddle on it is always "biting" on your gears. Since the paddles are not very close to each other there is a little slippage and the cup hits the sand and it "bites" and it does that over and over again. Especially when you jump, because when your in air your gears spin freely and then when you come down it grabs and kind of binds them up.
that was the best i could explain it, i am not sure if it made much sense or not.
Isn't that the whole point of the tire? To grab and get traction? Whether it's a knobby on hard pack or a paddle in sand. Thats the tires purpose. It's not gonna harm the tranny gears the mesh tolerance on the gears are very close. If your gears are slippin your missin teeth on them. Unless I completely miss understood what your sayin. Trannys are engineered and made strong since it's the major component of your drive line.
Posted by: 1of4Horsemen
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Originally posted by: cr125predator
As far as the paddle thing goes i get the point of what you are all trying to say but i just dont like them and would not normally use one.
You do use them on your quad according to the photo's in your Bio but not your dirt bike? This person that's telling you this knows more than any body you know, if that's the case Bud try reading up on the subject. There are a bunch of people on this sight that are serious engine builders. They all run paddles in the sand. Now don't ya think if it was that bad for the machine no one would use them, companies would not make them, the bike manufacturer would suggest you not use them. But that is simply not the case is it. I hate to say it you are getting faulty information.
Posted by: 1of4Horsemen
Okay, cr125predator, I'll ask you some questions and you tell me the answers. Don't ask your friend because he's giving you bad information. I do know the answers to these questions by the way. I'm just trying to get a feel of how much knowledge you do have before I give you the answers.
How much of a load does a paddle tire put on the transmission while in sand compared to a knobbie on hard pack or dirt?
Which transmission will see more of a load a motorcycle transmission or a quad transmission?
Which tires will spin easier in sand, a motorcycle with a paddle tire or the rear paddle tires on a quad? please give a reason why.
Posted by: Firefightinlv
My two cents is go with a paddle. I rode my CRF450R at Coral Pink and overheated twice. Granted the sand is really soft. You will enjoy the ride alot better once you get up too speed. I have never heard of anyone having tranny problems running paddles.
Posted by: Firefightinlv
True maybe we all got too carried away and forgot that he was riding a 125. I think a paddle can be used on a 2stroke 250 and anything larger. When I had my CRF250R I was told nothing larger than a 6 paddle tire and that is with mods !!
Not everyone rides a 450R !!
Posted by: cr2504me
yeah i agree, it depends on the bike. A 125 will have heaps of power to pull you through with that tyre, the idea after all is to get better traction, not to slow you down, im sure if a paddle slowed you they wouldn't be selling many.
