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Posted by: RoostKing
Im not all that impressed with the Raptor. Rode one and new Id never own one. Nothing in particualr about it, but it felt tippy and sorta sluggish. I have ridden a piped Bomb, and I really liked that machine. Someone said something about jumping the bomb, like he was shocked to see it happen. Brother, with 12 inches of travel front and rear, you better be able to jump!!! Not to mention, it won the Baja 2000 this year. Its a solid machine...
RoostKing...
Posted by: cctman
Hmm ... If I may I would like to add my two cents worh here...
I was pretty gung-ho about the Raptor espially when compared money wise to the cannondale, but recently I have really been upset from what I have been hearing from the pros, and many of my friends. Let me explain. First off I just came back from nationals in Crawfordsville, IN. Last year I saw at least 3 raptors competing out of over probably a couple hundred quads, this year not even one. I have a couple friends that are trying to find buyers right now to get rid of their raptors. They have had all kinds of problems with theirs. from blown rings, to bent upper a arms (from what I hear are vary thin aluminum), and bending handle bars, snapping clutch levers, ect; Now most of these guys are pretty hard on their machines, but from what I was told Yamaha Raptors are good up to a point, and then if you push them any harder they start bending and breaking parts way earlier than compared to other quads. It seems that Yamaha in the search of lightening up the Raptor has done some serious reducing of the structure integrity. When I was getting gas on my way to nationals I was talking to the gas station attendant, he also said his brother was wanting to sell his Raptor and go back to 250Rs, because he was tired of blowing rings. I honestly have vary little time on a raptor, but only your can decide if the risk is great enough for you when spending that type of money, I would deffinately go for a heavier quad if this meant having a stronger chassis. As for the Bombardier, I have heard nothing but good things, and despite its weight I have heard people taking 50 foot jumps in the dunes and having no problems what so ever. I don't know go figure...
Posted by: LDJ
I am thinking of selling the old 426EX and getting a dune machine. I only ride in the sand dunes. Out of the Raptor, and the C-Dale which one is better in the dunes. I have ridden the C-dale and the power was the same as my Quad now, but the C-dale was just piped. It just doesn't make sense for me to keep building my 426EX up to keep with the other new Quads. Please help!
Posted by: LDJ
The DS is is too big and heavy, I also like to jump too. To me it sounds like the Raptor has a motor you can build, compared to the c-dale. A piped C-dale has 40HP, and your saying a piped Raptor has 48HP, WOW. I have been trying to get 50HP out of my EX with no luck. I raced piped Raptors at the Dunes and beat them most of the time with my EX. But it could have been the rider. But, won't they be coming out with engine mods for the C-dale? I still Don't know what to do!
Posted by: LDJ
The reason why I said a 4-stroke instead of a 2-stroke, is because I personally think that a 250R is too old, and to find a mint 89' is almost impossible. I do not like a Banshees either. Now all the manufacturers are coming out with 4-strokes, and not 2-strokes. I always like to have a new quad. I have now made a decision to further build my EX. It just makes sense to me, because of all the money I have put in my 426EX.
Posted by: ScoobyDFW
A turbo charged 4-stroke is a lot like a 2-stroke
Posted by: ScoobyDFW
Maybe I'll see this XR650EX this weekend at Little Sahara?
Posted by: ScoobyDFW
no that's not me. I wasn't aware of anyone else at Little Sahara with a turbo DS?
Posted by: 95Warrior
A dedicated duner? It's a tossup between the DS650 and the Raptor (no substitute for displacement). I prefer the Raptor because of the smaller size, but in the November Dirt Wheels they have some pretty cool hopups the the DS from PAMI. Plus the DS comes with 12" of travel. With the Raptor, add a ProDesign air filter kit/Dynojet/ and a slip on pipe and have 48 HP for about 3 hours worth of work. And that's just the beginning. The Raptor also has 680 and 720 kits available. Of course the DS has the 760 kit available from PAMI, but if I recall it's about $5,000 (ouch). If you can try and beg a ride on each next time you're at the dunes. Coming off the Honda, you'll probably like the Raptor better, but the DS was built to be a duner, where the Raptor is more of an all-around ride. I let some Banshee guys ride mine last time and they thought it ripped pretty good. If you're thinking C-dale, you may as well keep the Honda, since the C-dale doesn't have the build potential of the Raptor or the DS because it's starting out at a 320cc disadvantage.
Posted by: 95Warrior
Following is a post from another forum by raptor720:
Corndog, You must be some back woods rocket scientist.
Stock Raptors hit 35-38hp by my observation. With a GYTR tip, needles, jets and the air box lid removed, I get 48 without a problem. Add a cam with the stock piston and 52+ is there. Perhaps you fail to understand that the Raptor is substantially restricted in stock form (perhaps because Yamaha does not want to sell something fast to someone like you -- for the safety of others). The horsepower gains are common knowledge and not wishful thinking.
Add a cam and 102mm piston with proper porting and you get over 60hp. Go with a 105mm piston and you easily get 70. Work on some carbs and cam specs and 75 is easy. Add a 4mm stroke and 80+ hp is reality.
The Raptor already has some serious mods available. Gains of this proportion are possible because you're starting with 660cc of diplacement. PAMI also gets these types of gains on the DS, so it's not just a Raptor thing. (RULE: There's NO SUBSTITUTE for displacement.) Big HP needs big displacement to start with. C-dale is running the same displacement that you already have, and the C-dale was scheduled to be a 400cc until Honda brought out the 400EX. So they may not be much room to bore and stroke it. For my money, a dedicated duner needs to have big displacement to start with and room to grow. Right now that's the Raptor, the DS, and the new Kawi 650 sport quad that's coming. Everything else gets in line. As a sidelight, Cannondale lost $6 million dollars this year ($2.70 per share), and it don't take too many of those and they're gone.
Posted by: fasternu
I say keep the EX, find an old quadzilla to restore, get it done, then ditch the hondaBR>
Posted by: olddesertds
I personally love my DS for duning, and I have ridden with Cannondales and Raptors and think they are both great quads also. The DS is the best jumper I have owned and I have owned a Banshee, 4 250R's, still got the EX. The reason the DS is the best jumper for myself is it's stability, which translates into safety, with a narrower quad you have more of a chance of disaster landing big air in the dunes. Anyone who jumps knows of quad rotation while in the air, this is caused by an uneven take off, or not having a good square edge. While jumping the DS I have landed nearly sideways and it always straightens out with out 2 wheeling or trying to peel you off the side of the quad, I have had rollovers on narrower quads because of this. The weight of the DS will keep you from getting the height in a jump of the lighter quads but the DS is great for distance in a jump. Yes my 90'Banshee and 87'250R where definately lighter and faster quads(both were modified), but I find the DS takes alot less effort to ride. As for the purchase of a Raptor, I would get the new and improved model because they gusseted the frame to strenghten it and they fixed the gear ratio problem they had with the first production of this quad, I personally would get wider a-arms and axle for dunes and desert riding to stablize the machine for jumping. A good experienced rider will have no problem with the narrower machines (just takes more body english). The weight of the DS was a concern for me at first, but I can honestly say I don't even notice it now. Hope I haven't rambled to much and free advice is only worth what you pay for it anyway.
Posted by: Sandgod
Coming off of two 295r's to my Raptor I can say this. My Raptor flys, as in jumps awsome in the dunes. I would say equal to my Honda's. I like the way the Raptor motors out of corners in the sand. I am racing around on Sand tracks w/ big jumps and big sweeping corners w/ my brother on his 250r/350 powervalve and he can't get away. We don't run paddles and the more corners the more space I put on the 350r powervalve. Is the powervalve fast, yes, very fast. Torque makes up for alot. We are riders of equal skill.
Posted by: 99mojave
you can take this and take that but when you get to the top of ANY hill there will be my little mojave .......the little bike that can.,...... all 350cc of it ...
Posted by: bLaStEr1435
If you want the altimate dune machine then dont get a 4 stroke. Get a banshee or a 250r. They are very fast stock and when modded are alot faster. With my 250r when it was stock (about a week ago) I would beat my friends raptor and blow away my other friends 400ex. Now I have an esr pipe and they arent even close. 2 strokes rule.
1995 yamaha blaster, lots of mods, for sale.
1986 honda trx250r, chrome esr pipe and more mods to come.
Posted by: TrX465
Im happy with my 465 im waiting to stroke it the only thing that has to be done the crank has to be shaved down in or to clear 4th gear i believe....right now im runnin a je 92mm piston with a hotrod im thinkin of strokin which will put me way in the the 500's right now im runnin about 60whp with alcohol and a ducati carb...
Posted by: FastAsHeck400EX
Listen guys. When I was at Little Sahara I saw a 2000 400EX with a 1999 XR650 motor in it. The motor was modded to hell also. That sucker was runnin with a dude with a streetbike motor in a 3-wheeler too. Plus they drove a black Ford Super-Duty sittin on 44s. SO they had MONEY! But the 650 rocked in the dunes and ruled ALL on the dragstrip except dragster Banshees. But that is a whole other story to tell. Talk to me on AOL messenger if you want to hear my dune stories or go here. My Little Sahara pics
My names on AOL messenger are:
ModdedOut400EX
SandDuner400EX
EXRiders400EX
Yellow2001400EX
StickitInner
PimpFromArkansas
And on Yahoo messenger:
FordTrucker460
Posted by: FastAsHeck400EX
<< Maybe I'll see this XR650EX this weekend at Little Sahara? >>
Are you that blond guy that always wears the backpack that rides that turbo DS650 with the glasspack for a pipe?
Posted by: machwon
If you want more from your 400ex I would talk with TC racing about a stroker motor. My friend has a TC stroker kit which is just as fast as any modded raptor I've seen. Banshee's with just pipes will be no problem as well as most 250r's. My 250 is as fast as most but no one looks twice. Everyone wants to know whats in my friends 400 ex but he doesn't tell anyone. His 400 ex is definitly unique and you can barely tell its anything but stock. He uses a stock header pipe cut off with a megaphone silencer, lectron carb, everything else is internal. I think TC claims high fifty's for horsepower. Anyways just another idea to toss around.
Posted by: Batoutahell
I have been going through the same decision. I have a raptor, and am going to give that to the wife. I am going to get either a cannibal or a DS 650 baja. I will be buying next weekend. I am pretty much set on the Baja, because of its suspension and I am a big guy that likes a nice solid ride. Also, I have asked and tried to find out if anyone will be coming out with engine mods for the cannondale and no one will answer me. Most say it is fast enough. Like there is such a thing.
As for the raptor, I think it is great in the desert and a blast to ride. But I was disappointed in the dunes. I am running sand skate II rears and dune runner fronts and it just doesnt have the power it should. Now I have also piped jetted and put a K and N in and modified the airbox and it runs real strong. A noticable difference from stock, but not what it should be. My buddy has a 400 with the same mods and his bike was running stronger. He would not beat me, but it was closer than it should be. I think a bike with that much engine, should blow away the competition. I was thinking about a banshee, but I don't like the feel of it. I really liked the feel of the new Baja.
I hope that helps you out.
bat
Posted by: 1986atc250r
Raptor's got too many chassis flaws that need to be overcome. Gotta spend a lot of $$$ to get real power out of it. Still haven't seen a truly fast one at the dunes. Seen tons of fast 400's, DS650s, and C-Dales. That tells you something...
I'd say if you have to have a new quad right now, get the C-Dale without a doubt. I've seen them repeatedly spank hopped up Raptors (by a large margin)... They have a much better chassis as well. Great all around machine. They've got MUCH better power delivery for the sand than the Raptor.
Another option to consider is that you will get nothing out of your 400 compared to what you have in it. Price is down on used 400's, especially modified ones. Too many clean stockers on the market... Think about an engine swap if you want a duner. Consider the money you'll lose when you sell it and the hit you'll take on a new quad... It would likely be money saved to sell your existing engine and get an XR650R (if you're looking to stay 4 stroke). It's much more powerful to begin with than a Raptor, and has a proven upgrade path (plus it's a Honda). Plus you'll have something unique and eye catching when finished. As you likely already know, OEM replacement parts for consumables (like plastic) are really cheap for an EX - yet another bonus...
Those would be my two choices. If I was going to do a strictly hill shooter & drag race 4-stroker, it would be TRX650R all the way - that is, unless you can afford to build a TRX450R. For sand trails, and general tearing around, with an occasional drag race - C-Dale.
BTW, saw my first CRF450R 2 days ago... My God did it ever have instant power, and sounded really good to boot...
Oh yeah - a piped Raptor has NO WHERE NEAR 48 RWHP. Someone's dreaming. "There's no replacement for displacement" - Old Shool BS - on an equal playing field where technology and weight do not matter, yes - the real world, a restounding NO. Give me a CRF450R or YZ426F engine any day over an XR600, or most any other 600+cc class dirtbike engine.
Anyone that's ever watched or raced in a sand drag knows that a piped Raptor would be very lucky to put out anything more than high 30's at the back tires.
Gabe
Posted by: 1986atc250r
I too will have to give the nod to the DS. I had the opportunity to ride and drag race two of them last time I was in the dunes... One had a pipe and carb, the other had pipe, carb, piston and cam... Very strong bikes. I even beat a drag piped narrow'd Banshee with the faster one (by a significant margin).
They are heavy, they ride smooth, they feel a bit funny at first - but I think after a while you'd get used to it.
I don't think I'd ever attempt jumping one like I jump my 400 and they're not woods bikes, but in the sand they work pretty well and are definitely fun to ride.
If I had to choose between a Raptor and a DS for a dunes quad, in my experience with the two there would be no 2nd thoughts, the DS would easily be my choice...
Posted by: zoo
I have had the chance of actually testing a DS650 in the dunes (bone stock) and I was very impressed. Unfortunately I have not yet had the pleasure of riding a Raptor, but they say it is the "bomb". Dirt wheels did a sand shootout a few issues back with these two particular quads with mild modifications, and they liked both, but I do recall that they did a few more mods (bucks$) on the Raptor to keep in equal to the DS650.
I myself would probably take the DS650 over the Raptor, for exclusive dune riding.
Posted by: ItSFaSt
I recently purchased a DS and I love it. i will admit thatr it is a little on the hefty side. But it has the displacement to make up for it. Slap a good pair of paddles on a stock "bomb" and you should have no trouble. I used to be in love with the raptors when they first came out but I drove both and ended up with what I felt comfortable with.
Posted by: Hurycne
After owning both a warrior and banshee my Ds is thebest for me. Also even though the mods are more expensive it is not more than havig to buy TWO of everything on a banshee!
Posted by: RoostinOnYou
I have to say DS all the way, Got one and love it
Posted by: 2fun
My question for you is, WHY do you want to stick with a 4-stroke for the dunes?
A 2-stroke will provide you with WAY more power and wheel-speed.
If you were trail riding, or playing in the woods, I would say yeah, go with a 4-stroke, but for the dunes, I say definately go with a 2-stroke. Less cc's, and more power, and THATS the bottom line!
