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Posted by: Eric Zeh
What&39;s all the fuss about engine braking with CVT transmissions? I have ridden snowmobiles since I was old enough to walk and no snowmobile has engine breaking with its CVT transmission. I have owned 2 Atv&39;s with CVT transmissions neither of which had or have transmission braking. Am I missing out on something? I could see where it might save your brakes a little but it would also be harder on your engine. Is it just because most people started out on manual transmissions and want the same feel out of an auto as they had with their manual?
Posted by: Bog_Hog
If there was a shootout previously - it probably wasn't with the new kodiak. Dirt wheels just did the inital test on the new kodiak. They both should be good bikes - only really big difference is the Prairie doesn't have compression braking and does not have a 2wd/4wd switch. If there IS a shootout, I would like to see it as well.
Happy Trails
------------------
Steve "Bog Hog" West
Honda 300 4x4 - Gordonized, Powered and Vamped
Posted by: Tree Farmer
Eric, to me, engine compression braking is important for control when descending steep slopes.
My Kawasaki friends assure me with adequate braking skills, I'd be as happy as could be riding a Prairie; I ain't quite convinced yet!
Tree Farmer
Posted by: Muddy_Doug_E
I would like to hear the opinion of the owner of the Kodiak and I'll bet he values things on his Kodiak more than the Prairie and puts his emphasis on that. I.E 2wd/4wd switching and the most important thing of all engine braking. Anyone that doesn't have engine braking please don't ride behind me!
I have the 4-wheel ATVACTION shootout between the Kodiak, Prairie and Explorer I will only give information about the Prairie and Kodiak. I'm only listing the catagories that one machine beat the other it it's not listed they were rated even!
The Kodiak is "The carving King in the Woods"
The Praire beats the Kodiak by .4 seconds in a drag race.
"If you are going to go fast you have to stop fast and the Kodiak has a huge edge here".
"On one loose steep hill, the Prairie was the only machine that couldn't make it in high range, but climbed fine in low".
The Kodiak gets four stars in low end power
The Prairie gets three stars in low end power
The Kodiak gets three stars in high end power.
The Prairie gets four stars in high end power.
Kodiak gets five stars for throttle response
Prairie gets four stars for throttle response
Kodiak gets five stars for CVT
Prairie gets four stars for CVT
Kodiak gets five stars for Range selection ease
Prairie gets three stars for Range selection ease
Kodiak gets five stars for turning precision
Prairie gets four stars for turning precision
Kodiak gets three stars for turning stability
Prairie gets four stars for turning stability
Kodiak gets five stars for crawl speed turning diameter
Prairie gets three stars for crawl speed turning diameter
Kodiak five stars steering ease
Prairie four stars steering ease
Kodiak five stars for foot brake operation
Prairie four stars for foot brake operation
Kodiak five stars front suspension
Prairie four stars front suspension
Kodiak five stars rear suspension
Prairie four stars rear suspension
Kodiak five stars ground clearance
Prairie three stars ground clearance
Kodiak five stars hillclimbing
Prairie three stars hillclimbing
Kodiak five stars downhilling
Prairie three stars downhilling
Kodiak four stars overall ease of use
Prairie five stars overall ease of use
Kodiak five stars start-up ease
Prairie four stars stars-up ease
Kodiak one star for backup starting ease
Prairie two stars for backup starting ease
Kodiak five stars for warm-up time
Prairie four stars for warm-up time
Kodiak three stars ease of maintenance
Praire five stars ease of maintenance
Kodiak four stars lack of vibration
Prairie five stars lack of vibration
Kodiak five stars air filter access
Prairie four stars air filter access
Total Prairie 194 stars
Explorer 201 stars
Kodiak 208 stars
"Overall none of our test riders picked the Prairie as their favorite machine, it is extremely competent but doesn't stand out enough in any category for it to make a winning impression also it is the most expensive machine it may be THIRD place in this shootout" It was close between the Polaris and Kodiak and the Gold medal goes the the KODIAK by a single vote!
Muddy Doug E
2000 Kodiak, 425 magnum, Kawasaki Bayou
Posted by: Muddy_Doug_E
RGV,
I was actually responding to the previous post.
posted 09-08-1999 11:05 AM
"last I read was in the 2000 Kodiak review, where they ended by commenting that the 400 Prairie trounced the 1999 Kodiak, and that they planned to do a head to head between the 2000 Kodiak and 2000 Prairie ASAP"
Due to the fact that 4wheel ATV action just finished doing this shootout between the 2000 Kodiak and the Prairie and no mention of this article was made I offered it up.
If anyone would like to read my numerous posts on the Kodiak they can do a search and read about my opinion. We all tend to be a little biased towards the machine we purchased and will generally try to defend it. I think it's fair to say that when three test riders all rate three machines accross so many catagories (by the way none of them mention the gas cap) and give a higher rating to one machine over the other it is something one might consider while making a purchase.
In fact most of the catagories that the Prairie won was under the Rider Comfort and Convience which would include "gas cap placement" on the other hand where the Kodiak clearly outshined the Prairie was in the Handling and Chasis design which to me is more important then back-up start-up ease which the Prairie clearly won with two stars.
Are they both great machines yes they are and if the article offends your choice of machine please take it up with the editor. I'm sure kawasaki is already trying to figure out what to add and change to meet the increasing demands the consumer places on the MFG. when choosing a new 4x4 Quad. This year at this point in time the Kodiak seems to have the best price for all the features you get. Next year it looks as though Honda may have the Gold medal. Maybe one of the other MFG. will surprise us all and give us what we really want sport suspension, 4x4 on-demand, True 4wheel drive, and 2stroke performance out of a 4stroke. Yamaha can do it but will they?
Muddy Doug E
Posted by: Muddy_Doug_E
Have to agree with you Raul on whatever is "new and improved" wins everytime. I.E 400EX
anyway what I want to know is if something is "new" how can it be improved and if something has been "improved" it can't be new. I will let you in on a secret that I try to avoid. I test rode the 400 Prairie before I purchased my Polaris Magnum 425 and have wished everyday that I spent the extra money and bought the Prairie. Live and learn I guess luckily I got a great deal on the magnum and won't loose too much selling it! Don't worry I'm on your side on the shootout the prairie is a much better than the Explorer we all know and agree on that so what do they know anyway? You already know how biased I am towards my Kodiak. I actually have family that live on the island of Kodiak in Alaska my wife and I go fishing up there every two years.
You know know that I think of it doesn't Kawasaki have speedo and odometer no mention of this was made in the shootout. See I couldn't even read that article objectivly as long as they were loving the Kodiak I was eatin it up.
Muddy Doug E
Posted by: Sgtshultzy
I understand that there was a shootout between theese to machines maybe last month or so. If so, does anyone know what the results were? I see a lot of stuff on the Kodiak in here, but very little on Prairies.
Posted by: rgv
last I read was in the 2000 Kodiak review, where they ended by commenting that the 400 Prairie trounced the 1999 Kodiak, and that they planned to do a head to head between the 2000 Kodiak and 2000 Prairie ASAP.
I'm replacing my 91 Big Bear and 96 Xplorer soon, and those two are prime candidates so I'll be looking for that review too.
I've ridden a Prairie, and what impressed me most was the really low rpm clutch (torque convertor?) engagement, it almost feels like a manual tranny when you punch it from a dead stop. Not like a Polaris at all.
Raul
Posted by: rgv
sgtshultzy,
I bought a KVF400 4x4 Prairie, and have so far put 650 miles on it already hunting and riding.
One of the guys I hunt with just bought a 2000 Kodiak, so naturally we did a lot of comparing and swapped quads a few times to see if either of us screwed up.
Differences:
-Prairie is a bigger machine, but not bulky or unmanueverable. Definitely the choice for bigger riders.
-Prairie has a better seat for carrying a passenger. Kodiak seat is comfortable enough but very short.
-Prairie is faster. top-end speed, from a stop, from a 30 mph roll. no contest.
-Kodiak has low-speed braking. The Prairie only brakes until the engine drops to idle, then it freewheels. You can get by this by blipping the throttle while going downhills to keep the clutches engaged, but the full time braking on the Kodiak is nice.
-Kodiak turns tighter by about 4 feet outside diameter (keeping all four wheels on the ground). And in 2wd you can really powerslide the rear if you need to turn even tighter. You have to really reef the Prairie's inside tire up to turn with a Kodiak.
-Kodiak has a 2wd switch. Really nice when you are booting it through a trail and want to powerslide the rear. Probably saves a lot of wear and tear and helps fuel economy.
-Kodiak has better (bigger)racks
-Prairie doesn't have footpegs. I'm going to order a set of Kodiak footpegs and put them on my Prairie ASAP.
-Prairie drive engages at much lower rpm. It will spin the tires and crawl around a little better because of this.
-Kodiak has a better winch mounting location within the bumper, very neat and protected. The Prairie you have to mount a winch sticking out or else in front of, and level with the front rack.
-Praire has a better suspension for fast trail riding (front Mcpherson struts). More travel and softer, yet won't bottom out. Kodiak suspension is definitely more work oriented. The Prairie will blow the Kodiak away going over whoop-de-doo's and through rough trails.
-Kodiak has a rear disc brake instead of a poorly sealed drum brake, and it also has a Park position in the tranny (like a car). Both machines have good enough brakes to throw you over the handlebars.
-Range on both machines was 110-120 miles
-Prairie has auxiliary power leads in the front and rear for lights, handwarmers etc. Don't appear to exist on the Kodiak, or at least we couldn't find them.
We both paid about the same for the machines. We are both happy with the machines. I chose the Prairie because;
-it was more comfortable to me
-it has been out for 4 model years, so any glitches have been worked out, as opposed to the Kodiak which is brand new.
-I didn't like the seat on the Kodiak not being big enough for a passenger. I know you're not supposed to, but its something you have to do once in a while.
I believe both machines are made in the USA as well.
Pick the one that is more comfortable to you and has the better dealer support in your area. Both are very excellent machines.
Raul
Posted by: rgv
Doug,
sorry for offending you for your choice in ATV's.
I was objectively presenting what we (me AND the Kodiak owner) found to be pluses/minuses from both of us riding both quads, not regurgitating magazine reviews.
The Kodiak owner also agrees that they are both good machines with goods and bads, and that the choice comes down to looks/comfort/fit, not a 2-3 mph top speed difference or what a magazine rider thought of the position of the gas cap.
Each buyer will decide which pluses/minuses will mean more to him when they go to make a purchase, and I hope they go by more than a magazine review.
Raul
[This message has been edited by rgv (edited 09-27-1999).]
Posted by: rgv
Doug,
I took your first respose wrong, sorry about the attitude.
You are right about people defending their descisions, but I wasn't doing that at all (or not trying to anyways).
I also tend to dislike magazines' ideas of truck, car, or ATV of the year awards, anything new always wins no matter what. Ford trucks in 1997, Chev Silverado in 1999, and the Prairie in 1997 or Kodiak in 1999 for that matter. the decisions seem just too 'advertising dollar' driven to me.
Peace
Raul
Posted by: rgv
Doug,
Hey, I've got family in Kenai and Soldotna, and an aunt that taught school on Kodiak for a while. No family at all on the prairies, d*mn, does that mean i gotta go trade in ??? hehehe
Tree Farmer & Ed
just to clarify, the Prairie CVT has full engine braking until the engine drops to full idle. It's weird the first time you ride it, the engine brakes you, then as the engine drops to idle, the machine suddenly freewheels. Very scary the first time. Fortunately, all you have to do is anticipate the clutches releasing and blip the throttle just before it releases, and you retain full engine braking on any hill. It is not as good as true full time engine braking, but you can get used to it.
I started riding quads on Polarises anyway, so any braking at all was a big step up!!
Raul
