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Posted by: 54warrior
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Originally posted by: SRS
Polaris has absolutely no part in the design or development of KTM's new Race Quad.
THANK GOD FOR THAT!!!!
Posted by: 54warrior
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Originally posted by: LT80
BAHAHAHAHA....
Ya know why Polaris makes so many models????????????????
Still trying to make a good one.img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-cool.gif" border="0">BR>
Sorry but I had to.
Funny because it's so true!!!!
Posted by: 54warrior
I think Polardass makes a good 4x4 machine. They certainly have improved in recent years over past versions. The Predator just isn't doing it for me though.
The overall fit and finish of their machines just seems "sub-par" to me.
I can't stand the whole metric, standard, and torx thing either!!!
Posted by: 54warrior
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Originally posted by: Bradracer18
whats the matter........not enough tools in your tool box?.....or is it, that you don't know how to use them?
Actually, I just recently took an inventory of all the tools that I own for insurance purposes and I have about $2500 worth of stuff. Sure, it's not as many tools as alot of people have, but more than the average Joe. I like to think that I know how to use all of them-hahaha.
What my statement meant was that it's a hassle having three diff. types of fasteners on the machine. I prefer to keep things simple, and sorting through three types of tools is not. A person shouldn't need an entire toolbox to perform routine maintenance on a quad.
Posted by: 54warrior
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Originally posted by: motox26
That's about a few tools for some guys.hr>
And as I already stated...
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Originally posted by: 54warrior
Sure, it's not as many tools as alot of people have, but more than the average Joe.
Getting back to the whole KTM thing. I hope we get some details soon. I'm hoping for something really special from them. I think they are plenty capable of giving us the "next 250r". While other manufacturers are certainly capable, they just aren't willing to give us something like that yet. I forsee the KTM being something completely centered towards racing motocross and GNCC-similar to what Cannondale gave us in the MOTO and Blaze machines.
Unfortunately, with the amount of brand loyalists out there, it will be hard for KTM to become a key player in the current 4-stroke war, similar to Cannondale. Fortunately for KTM, they have a backround and history in motorsports though, unlike Cannondale. This should make it easier for them to transition into the ATV market and be successful.
Cross your fingers.
Posted by: 54warrior
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Originally posted by: GE4x4
Another issue with KTM is there dealer network. We have a grand total of 2 KTM dealers in our state. True racers will travel, but most rec racers will stick with the dealers that are much closer. This will hurt them.
You bring up another great point there.
Not to mention that probably only what-15-20% of the ones that are sold will actually be raced?!?!
Posted by: 54warrior
Can we assume that it will have a No-Link Swingarm??? Just like the bikes???
I can't understand why handling seems to be such an issue. The geometry's that work are out there, all they have to do is copy!!! DUH!!!
Posted by: 54warrior
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Originally posted by: GE4x4
I guess we will see, but from what my dealer said, if it's a full KTM (not a Polaris with KTM engine) they will not be able to sell them as they are not a KTM dealer.
I thought it had been concluded (based on previous posts in this thread) that it WOULD be a completely KTM only machine?!?! I certainly hope it is.
Posted by: 54warrior
Wow the rumor mill sure is spinning fast now!!!
I have heard no rumors of a Can-Am V-twin till now-please enlighten me with some facts regarding this! It's a bad idea making a v-twin 450 IMHO.
I have heard no rumors of a Husky quad till now, they can't market their bikes to sell competitively here, what makes you think their quad will be any different?
Cost- I expect the KTM quad to be in the $8500-$10k range. It will not be more than the Cannondales. Cannondale needed to sell them at that cost to pay for engineering,tooling, new mfg. facility, etc. KTM is an established mfg. that already has the engine, tooling, and mfg. facility. It will be priced competitively with the "big four".
Aluminum frame-Cannondales had the ORIGINAL ATV aluminum frame, not Yamaha and not Kawasaki, sorry had to clear things up.
Polaris- they might not ever get their head out of the sand and build a true 450 racer. The Outlaw (stupid name IMHO) is far from perfect (aside from the KTM motor) They should stick to selling 4x4's.
Polaris/KTM alliance- I read a news article that stated KTM bought back all their stock from Polaris. There is no "joint-venture" between the two when it comes to building a new quad. Only the 525 motor deal.
KTM- maker of awesome "out of the box" race bikes. I hope they uphold their reputation in the quad sector. Awesome motors, trick parts from the factory-hydro clutches, wave rotors, lots of Al and Ti. Better perfect their rear no-link suspension on this quad if it's expected to be a hit. Hoping for big things from this company. I expect them to pick up the ball that Cannondale dropped.
Posted by: 54warrior
Oh, THAT Husky quad. Hasn't that thing been around awhile? Correct me if I'm wrong, but if it's the quad that I'm thinking of it's been around about 3 years or so??? If it were that great, wouldn't guys be having them shipped here already?? Just my observations.
I also don't want you to get the impression that I am against any mfg. that dares to go up against the big-four. I owned a Cannondale for 2 years that I bought brand new when I could have easily purchased something else. I am for anything by anyone that will make things better.
Posted by: GE4x4
Another issue with KTM is there dealer network. We have a grand total of 2 KTM dealers in our state. True racers will travel, but most rec racers will stick with the dealers that are much closer. This will hurt them.
Posted by: GE4x4
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Originally posted by: LT80
"We have a grand total of 2 KTM dealers in our state."
And this is what they may use Polaris for.
They have already stated that the KTM will be a XC based machine (at first).
I guess we will see, but from what my dealer said, if it's a full KTM (not a Polaris with KTM engine) they will not be able to sell them as they are not a KTM dealer. Not that they didn't try to be one. They were denied as they were within 50 miles of another, and that dealer fought tooth and nail to make sure they didn't get it. So I don't know what KTM will do.
Posted by: LT80
Polaris/KTM will be comming out with a 450 class racer.
Posted by: LT80
Tim Farr has joned KTM in the making of a 450 class racer. It will be a XC based quad.
Posted by: LT80
BAHAHAHAHA....
Ya know why Polaris makes so many models????????????????
Still trying to make a good one.img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-cool.gif" border="0">BR>
Sorry but I had to.
Posted by: LT80
"We have a grand total of 2 KTM dealers in our state."
And this is what they may use Polaris for.
They have already stated that the KTM will be a XC based machine (at first).
Posted by: LT80
moto26 is correct in his statement about a 2 cylinder not being allowed.
I just looked at the A MA PRO rules. In "MX" single cylinder machines only...
Posted by: LT80
http://216.165.193.20/ktmtalk/index.htm
Go there and talk quads.
Apparently a KTM quad is worthless. Bikes are the only means of sport.
I got kicked out and I was nice.
Posted by: modquad
Hopefully with the intro of the KTM quad....the "want" to own a KTM dealership will grow (as compared to just having their dirtbikes). Whatever people think, it's still way cool that there will be yet another performance/race quad entering the market.
Please people, leave the "high school" quad slang names at home. BR>
Jetblast
Posted by: Scootergptx
Latest on Polaris/KTM stock sales.
Posted by: Scootergptx
Maybe KTM isn't even worried about the US market right now. Most of their loyalty is in Europe. If they can get a good share of the market there, get the good reviews maybe then they'll try to actually compete with the US market.
The KTM dealer here has more KTM's and Husqavarna's on the floor that he does Polairs.
Posted by: Scootergptx
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Originally posted by: pabst660r
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if you want to see the husqvarna 450- just google husqvarna quad, and you should find a picture of it in one of the first 10 links
all you have to do is search this site and there is a link to the pics.
Here's link to the dealership I go to. He has 90% of the KTM and is adding more huskies every week.
Posted by: Bradracer18
whats the matter........not enough tools in your tool box?.....or is it, that you don't know how to use them?
I think the pred is just fine.......if you can ride well. Only thing I don't like........is the weight........My next quad however, will not be a pred....haha.......sorry to say.
Posted by: motox26
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Originally posted by: SRS
just to clear up some bad press.......there is no Polaris/KTM......KTM sells Polaris engines for their outlaw....However The new KTM 525 and 450 Race Quads will be Totally built and developed by KTM with input from TimFarr.
Considering Polaris bought out a good part of KTM, they are going to develope for both brands and be simular machines, if not identical.
Posted by: motox26
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Originally posted by: 54warrior
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Originally posted by: Bradracer18
whats the matter........not enough tools in your tool box?.....or is it, that you don't know how to use them?
Actually, I just recently took an inventory of all the tools that I own for insurance purposes and I have about $2500 worth of stuff.
That's about a few tools for some guys.BR>
But I must say that I agree on liking the fasteners to be simular. I only need two T-handles to get my 450 stripped of it's plastica and tank.
Posted by: motox26
It must be hard to become a KTM dealer. It took a local Yammi/Kawi dealer 4 years to pick up KTM, they had all sorts of troubles.
Posted by: motox26
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Originally posted by: crazy1291
i hope the can-am 450 will be have more power and more suspension that the ktm or husqvarna quads...... because its a v-twin and can-am has been working on it FOREVER.......
No it will not be a V-twin, that is a rumor. V-twins aren't even aloud to race in the premier classes.
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The ktm is not going to be affordable for the avg person though- it'll be around 12-16grand probably just like husvarna
That's not true either, it will not even be close to 12 grand!!! Where do you come up with this info? It will be around 8 grand at most!
Posted by: motox26
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Originally posted by: crazy1291
the can-am 450 will be aprilia powered (but aprilia is rotax powered (right?), so technically the can-am is can-am powered)
and what is wrong with a v-twin in a 450? you dont think they can get the weight down to 375lbs to make it competitive with the other 450s
We'll see soon enough, but it will NOT be a V-twin. Like I said, it wouldn't even be legal in the premier Pro Classes.
Posted by: motox26
Bike sites don't take to kindly to quads for some reason
Posted by: emeraldisleatv
Well if they will be like their dirtbikes, they will have great power, ok handling and lets just hope the quads are more reliable
Posted by: TPR
Moto is correct, the Can-Am is not going to be a Aprillia motor for the very reason mentioned about AMA rules. The only way a twin sport would ever appear from Can-Am is if they used the 550 Aprillia motor in somthing that would replace the DS 650. And from what I know, that's not happening either.
TPR
Posted by: TNRMZ
It is the Outlaw. The new Outlaw 525 has a KTM 510cc motor in it.
Posted by: Honeyduck96
Pray KTM goes it alone. they have fantastic motors that don't desever to be saddled with Polarass chassis
Hope to see a lightweight sport (read race) 4x4 IRS from them too.
Posted by: Honeyduck96
Trend up here is larger dealerships selling multiple brands. Some even have the store split into two smaller showrooms, sharing a common shop and parts area. I have noticed more KTM dealers lately, and I love checking out the rides at my local Yamaha/Honda/Can-Am/KTM dealer. No kidding.
Posted by: Honeyduck96
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Originally posted by: 54warrior
Can we assume that it will have a No-Link Swingarm??? Just like the bikes???
I can't understand why handling seems to be such an issue. The geometry's that work are out there, all they have to do is copy!!! DUH!!!
Take a page out of the Japanese manufacturer's book - copy what works and just tweak it to make it your own.
Posted by: Honeyduck96
Originally posted by: motox26
Bike sites don't take to kindly to quads for some reason
Fear
Posted by: ZapooMafoo
Here is a pic
Posted by: crazy1291
ktm is going to make a "race ready" (even more so that the ltr, ppl do end up getting better susp for the ltr) 450, and an xc 525 aka 510
But isnt the predator an ALL STEEL frame????? i think if they made a complete aluminum frame (steal off the kfx450fr and tweak it) and added efi- you would see a lot more preds out there. it has the POTENTIAL to be really good- like a 450 with a big bore kit........
But all the pred REALLY needs is a lighter engine- like the 525
Im sad because i really like north american brands like can-am and polaris...... i hate the big-4 though- i would rather see nice european quads out there, then 450r's, the world is overpopulated with trx450rs and trx400ex's
i hope the can-am 450 will be have more power and more suspension that the ktm or husqvarna quads...... because its a v-twin and can-am has been working on it FOREVER.......
The ktm is not going to be affordable for the avg person though- it'll be around 12-16grand probably just like husvarna
its cool that it is being developed alongside a racer just like doug gust and the ltr450- but who is a better racer? doug gust, or tim farr.... the better rider might have more experience and have the beter quad......
when is yamaha going to build an amazing yfz alongside bill balance.....??
Posted by: crazy1291
I didnt get the info anywhere that it was going to be 12k....... but the husqvarna is supposed to be a race-ready quad........ it has a lot of nice goodies like its suspension, and it costs 14000 euros. The ktm is also going to be "race ready" so you can expect it to cost a lot more than the lt-r- it'll probably cost more than the ATK/cannondale quads since ktm's are imports
The ktm is going to use a lot of unconventional things just like the pred. (steering, anti-dive/squat, etc) and it will probably be a bit awkward to ride compared to a say- yfz or ltr or trx, for the first few years
Posted by: crazy1291
the can-am 450 will be aprilia powered (but aprilia is rotax powered (right?), so technically the can-am is can-am powered)
and what is wrong with a v-twin in a 450? you dont think they can get the weight down to 375lbs to make it competitive with the other 450s
Most likely it will be a bit like dropping a shee 350 motor into a yfz chassis- the aprillia 1000s produce peak torque at 8500rpm, i think the 450s will have peak power at around 9500rpm.
if you want to see the husqvarna 450- just google husqvarna quad, and you should find a picture of it in one of the first 10 links
Posted by: crazy1291
ok well then people were lying all along- sorry for the wrong info
i hope they make the 550 instead then- just another quad to compete with the 'law and 700r
edit: that burst my bubble- a twin would have had much room to easily swap a bigger motor into
it could have been a nice duner- i dont really see the point in competing with the 450's there's already 4 big ones of them- and a 5th one coming from ktm......
they'ld be MUCH better off competing with the raptors- jsut less competition i guess....
Posted by: crazy1291
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Originally posted by: modquad
Please people, leave the "high school" quad slang names at home. BR>
but it goes faster =D
Posted by: crazy1291
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Originally posted by: SRS
HUH!! copy the Japaneese....KTM is the leader in innovations...alot of the technology in the bikes today was copied from KTM.... 1'st with liquid cooled engines, 1'st witg upsidedown forks, 1'st with removable subframes, ect..... not to mention KTM hold more World Titles than all the Jap. Bikes combined!!! Fact not Fiction!!
But isnt KTM a really old company? i think the only really old japanese companies are yamaha and honda (but yamaha is still only about 51 years old)
What is so good about not having linkage on the rear shock-you know what would be real nice? those FOX shocks without the springs- those look SO nice, even nicer than an ltr with elkas w/ red springs
Posted by: DVXDUDE
kfx450??? lol thats kawi....I bet it will be like the outlaw by polaris....who knows though
Posted by: yz426ex
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Originally posted by: LT80
Polaris/KTM will be comming out with a 450 class racer.
But they will probably de tune it like every other 450 quad. If ktm is smart they will only the beef motor up
and let it keep all its power.
i bet the KTM will have the most power. KTM is mainly all race.
Posted by: mudeater500
yes, its gona be the kfx450, i no a guy who is gona get one soon, from what i here there pretty bad a$$.
Posted by: warrioryamaha94
i heard that ktm is coming out w/ a 4 wheeler soon.....has anybody heard about this
Posted by: warrioryamaha94
i heard their suppose to be coming out w/ the 450 next summer, and about the lack of dealerships i dont think it will be that big of a deal i know if your buying something that important driving alittle ways isnt a big deal, if they promote well and get somebody good to ride one in gncc races your going to see ktm dealerships popping up all over the place in the next few years
Posted by: SRS
just to clear up some bad press.......there is no Polaris/KTM......KTM sells Polaris engines for their outlaw....However The new KTM 525 and 450 Race Quads will be Totally built and developed by KTM with input from TimFarr.
Posted by: SRS
Polaris only bought 26%...but it was on a trial basis that wasn't working out for KTM so they parted ways. the only ties to KTM is that Polaris is buying engines.....Polaris has absolutely no part in the design or development of KTM's new Race Quad.
Posted by: SRS
OK THEN..... If you read the stock report....Polaris Sold back the Majority of it's KTM Stock to KTM's largest shareholder (Cross Industries ) Polaris now owns less than 5% of KTM stock.
Looks Like KTM also thinks Polaris is lacking in the ability to build a good ATV
Posted by: SRS
HUH!! copy the Japaneese....KTM is the leader in innovations...alot of the technology in the bikes today was copied from KTM.... 1'st with liquid cooled engines, 1'st witg upsidedown forks, 1'st with removable subframes, ect..... not to mention KTM hold more World Titles than all the Jap. Bikes combined!!! Fact not Fiction!!
Posted by: SRS
If you must know ....it will have no linkage...
Posted by: pabst660r
from what my understanding on the subject was is this.ktm was in fact going to make their their quad thru polaris "badged" as a ktm but had major design differences with polaris so ktm backed out and said we`ll make it ourselfs if you don`t want to make it the "ktm" way.as for the 525 outlaw,to me i think once the 525 ktm quad hits the market you will see that quad discontinued.its probubly just a trial to see how well the ktm powerplant would accept the quad chassis.i`d be really suprised if ktm keeps selling polaris motors that they paln on putting in one of their own machines.i do know that the first to be released will be the 450 based mx quad.i was reading a article somewhere that interveiwed a guy (not farr) that went to europe to test ride the prototype and said it was on par for what was out there now in the 450 class.
Posted by: pabst660r
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if you want to see the husqvarna 450- just google husqvarna quad, and you should find a picture of it in one of the first 10 links
all you have to do is search this site and there is a link to the pics.
