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Posted by: Stroker
I feel that the AMA or ATVA or whatever they are should consider giving cycle engines some classes or at least allowing the mod classes for the youths to still run cycle motors. If they outlaw these what are the kids gonna race? All hopped up LEMS and Kaseas? I bet they jump real well with 1 inch of travel. Sorry to whine, just feel like the ATVA is slamming the door on us.
Posted by: Stroker
<< Who cares, we run the Kasea and always -- yes, always beat the shifters -- including the KX85's. Add some a-arms and real shocks and the CVT youth atv's smoke those oversized motorcycle engine powered youth sofas. >>
If you can run a Kasea with a national caliber GNC Mod 90 racer and win then I am very impressed. These racers clear almost all the doubles the big guys do and I seen a few of them passing a ton of the air cooled racers in practice at the Greenville,TT. I am not trying to say our aftermarket based youth quad is any better than yours. Hey, if you built something a kid can run and have fun on then it's good enough for me. I was just saying it'd be a shame to have us outlawed because we went out and spent the $ so to say on what everyone else is running at the GNC's. The money was spent ( damage was done so to speak), we already have the quad and plan on running all 9 MX GNC's and 3 or 4 TT's next season. Let's just get ready and go racing. Chances are there will be rumors flying all year about changes anyways, hopefully yhe ATVA and other officials will talk to a lot of racers this year ( not just the pro's) and see what they can do to improve the sport. I am sure my opinions are not the same as everyone elses.
Posted by: mxer
I am 15 6'0 150lbs. Their is no way i can ride a LT-80 or any other of the production mini quads. Those kids arnt running the kx85 and the cr80 quad because theyw ant to spend the extra money but because they can not fit on a lt80. Get real. Eliminate motorcycles is will kill the 12-15 class. Now they really need to like 12 year olds in the air cooled class or they will loose alot of under age racers.
my 2 cents.
cya at the nationals next may when i turn 16
Posted by: retro
Chawness,
Where on the ATVSCENE did you read this?
ERIC
Posted by: retro
Thanks!
i just had to click "refresh" for some reason?
ERIC
Posted by: dual-sporter
what we really need to do is look at it from the maufacturers perspective as well.
-they want advertising that will yield results in sales
-they want to avoid liability of lawsuits if possible
-they want to make as much as they can off every unit possible
example: the zyf400 won the outdoor nationals its first year of production, sales were great. Mcgrath rode yamaha yz250's to multiple supercross titles, sales reflected it.
is there that much profit in making a closed course race quad? i don't know
will a series such as the arenacross & supercross that included quads give enough incentive to bring new blood into the sport & sell machines? not sure
how much liability is there in making such a machine? lawyers think there's plenty.
maybe the way to go about it is limiting the amatuer ranks, so that super modded machines must run super modded (pro)classes, make production machines w/ minor bolt-ons & suspension mods OK in amatuer ranks... but the problem is: how can you tell w/o tearing motors down at the end of every race with a tech judge there to inspect every part??? it adds to the cost again.... we end up chasing our own tails.... in racing of all forms, everyone is trying to find ways around every rule w/o getting caught...how else do you think they get 800 hp out of nascar v-8's?
i agree that the west coast needs some series for quads, i love hearing about what happened in PA,TN, KY, OH, etc... but can't afford to make the trip for a weekend, ever.
Posted by: tprender
It is not a rule yet, it was dicussed if it should be made a rule. We have a year before it will be voted one. Maybe it will not need to be made a rule because of the new quads maybe being good enough that you don't need to use a zy engine? This is something that will be talked about for the next year.
Posted by: tprender
This is just my 2 cents worth and my oponiun, but first the 90cc SS class was not dropped at the GNC and a 50cc class was added for 2002. Some people are very unhappy and being very vocal about the split, but why was TT and MX put together back in the early 80's? I don't know, but why did they not also put hillclimbing, drag racing, hare scrambles,etc, or something else together with them? Later, in the 90's the GNC got larger, but no one was incharge after the AATVA was taken over by the AMA and it was just left alone "as is". In all other sports, do you see people completing in different types of events, very few? Motorcycle (I think) used to have the outdoor and indoor MX together, but it was split and we now have 2 different champions and they are more alike than TT and MX.
Yes the numbers will go down this year for TT, but they will also be down for MX. But next year, if the races are placed in the correct locations and the promoters do thier job like they are supposed to, TT will grow and become a great ATV sport. If everyone keeps talking down the split it is not going to work and TT will die nationally. Think of it this way, when you are going into a race what kind of a race or day will you have if you are thinking negative? You do not have to race all 15 races, you just have to do 9 or 6 and if you want a few of the others to have fun.
Everyone knew that the split was going to happen either this year or next year for sure. Let's quit talking about it and move forwrd and get ready for the next racing season.
Also, find out who is your ATV person for you AMA district and find out if they are a true ATV person. These people are being elected in the months(Nov and Dec) for next year in your local AMA district. This past year like in the past years, of the 18 or 20 people at AMA congress on the ATV committe, only about 6 were ATV riders. Find out if your district has a non-ATV person, get yourself or a fellow ATV person voted in place of them. Then next year at the AMA/ATVA Congress you will have a true voice in what happens not some motorcycle person voting for you. Get involved in what goes on, instead of just talkingand conplaining.
Posted by: Chawness
I just got done reading atvscene.com and they have really shook up the GNC series for 2002. The biggest news to me is that there will no longer be an overall GNC pro #1, because they have separated the TT series from the MX series. To me that is both good and bad. Good because you no longer have to build an expensive TT setup, but bad because it might hurt TT racing turnout. I also liked the fact that the #1 pro had to be the best in every aspect of ATV racing (MX and TT).
The second big news to me was in the 2003 season, no motorcycle engines (ie YZ426) can be used in any classes for the 2003 season. The people that spent BIG BUCKS building that 426 racer are hating life! I think this is a good thing. It will keep the cost down at least a little for someone to be competitive. Wonder what Tim Farr will ride for the 2002 season? I bet he will make the change for 2002 if he is going to.
The third big news is there will be a Pro production four-stroke class in 2003, allowing only factory ATV frames and engines. They are said to be pushing this as the premier class in the GNC. Makes sense and may get the factories involved again. There will also be an A, B and C version of this class.
The GNC series will be 15 separate rounds! The MX will be grouped together then TT, so no more changing from TT to MX setup every weekend.
I hope and pray that they FINALLY have a MX GNC at BUDDS CREEK! It is tentatively on the schedule and That track rocks! JT, if you are reading this, call me!
Posted by: Chawness
The key words in that part of my post were "every weekend"
Here's the tentative 2002 schedule:
March 23 -- Bud's Creek, MD -- MX (Jonathon Beasley)
April 13 -- Macon, GA -- MX (Donny Banks)
April 27 -- London, KY -- MX (Jerry Hebel)
May 11 -- Red Bud, MI -- MX (Red Bud Track & Trail)
May 25 -- Muddy Creek, TN -- MX (Victory Sports)
June 8 -- Birch Creek, Ringold, VA -- MX (Mark Keen, Riverbottom Promotions)
June 22 -- Mt Morris, PA -- MX (Racer Productions)
June 29 -- Ft. Dodge, IA -- TT (Fast-Trak Promo)
July 13 -- Elizabeth City, NC -- TT (Charles Speltz)
July 27 -- Ashtabula, OH -- TT (Fischer Cyle Racing)
Aug 3 -- Nashville, IN or Bardstown, KY (to be named) -- TT (Fast-Trak Promo)
Aug 17 -- Loretta Lynn's, TN -- MX (Racer Productions)
Aug 24 -- Sikeston, MO -- TT (C&C Cycle)
Sept 7 -- Greeneville, TN -- TT (Victory Sports)
Sept 21 -- Casey, IL -- MX (?)
Posted by: Chawness
Its right there under the "This Just In" column
http://65.108.49.197/thisjustin/ATVAcongress01.htm
Posted by: Chawness
Speaking of Victory Sports...... After this years Muddy Creek National (Victory Sports), I wrote a letter to them complaining about the filthy restrooms and showers. They had the nerve to write back and ask what I found offensive!
As for the TT racing, I get the feeling that they pretty much just killed the sport of ATV TT racing.
Posted by: Chawness
I agree that the average family cannot afford an entire season of National level ATV racing. Seems like everyone involved has there hand out (aftermarket companies, track owners etc. etc.). I remember more than a few times getting home from a national and not having enough money to by groceries. That was also the LAST season I ran the entire GNC series ('94).
Posted by: Chawness
REP,
Where do you ride in harrisonburg? I have two places to ride around Strasburg, a private track and Powl Mountian. Email me if you'd like.
Posted by: garyc660R
This is good news. Lower operating costs will result in many more entries and popularity of the sport going up. The "stock based" machine class will be a welcome addition.
I was reading in the latest Atv sport that this NEEDS to happen for the sport to flourish. Pressure will surely be on atv manufacturers to make better quads for all.
Also, these atv racers running at the top of their sport are well underpaid! This will hopefully get the ball rolling towards equaling paychecks between top dirt bike racers and top atv racers. What happens then....guys that were working all week and racing the weekends will be training all week. Competition level goes up!
Posted by: REP
I think that the first thing we should all ask is, What will help the sport of ATV racing. The bottom line is that most "average" people can not afford to build a 15g to 20g racing quad. When you add motorcycle motors to a quad this is what you get. We need to make the sport affordable for all people who want to enjoy it. When you add the price of building a competitive quad to the price of fielding two quads for different types of racing, not to mention all the other costs associated with racing around the country, you quickly find that it is not praticial for people to enjoy this sport.
I love both aspects of this sport, TT and MX. However, can a regular middle class family afford to support there son or daughtor or even themselves in this sport. The answer is no. I have a few suggestion for the AMA which they may already be doing and may not, depending on who you talk to.
1. Split the TT and MX races into to different series that do not conflict with the other series.
2. Ban motorcycle motors. Force the Big 4 to build up to date quads that we can all enjoy, at an affordable price.
3. Have an East coast/West coast series much like the current supercross races for 125cc. This way we do not limit participation to only east coast people.
4. Have an East coast/West coast shoot out at the end of the year. Have it in Tn, every other national is there so why not have another.
5. Pressure the AMA to include ATV's with the supercross series. They can run between the 125 and 250 races.
At this time the sport is limiting itself to people that can afford to race the series. There is a problem with that because there are not many people that can do this. The bottom line is that any changes that we can make to help the sport grow would be a step in the right direction. You will always have people that do not agree that TT and MX should be seperated. But, if you look at the bottom line, which should be what will make the sport larger, it is a needed split. I welcome any disagreement with my statments and will write an in depth valid point of view if needed.
Posted by: adamsmith
It seems to me like this new series has potential. It also has me very interested in following the mx series for a couple reasons I like mx more and also there are 7 mx races within a reasonable proximity to me.
I think it would not be a good idea to eliminate motorcycle motors so soon. Until there is a major effort put forth to make factory built racing atvs. Many, will find YZ426s and possibly CR450s as a good choice in building their race ready quads.
Splitting up the series points between MX and TT might be better for some people. Mainly alot of guys I know who only run TT and have no desire to run MX. I know that in the Mid Atlantic series there are quite a few riders who only run the TT and because of that they didnt even qualify for the overall awards.
Adam Smith
99 400EX
Posted by: adamsmith
check out atvaonline.com they have all the latest news.
Adam Smith
99 400EX
Posted by: atv88
Wow I can't believe they did away with the Orrville TT. I wonder why they did that? I think the new rules are fair and some were needed for along while. Factory racing may be back in full force
Posted by: LT80
ummm,, yes we still have to switch from TT to MX,,look at the schedule.
no more GRAND national champion,,hope the guys whining about TT's are happy now.
Posted by: LT80
tprender: my personal point of view is this: the no motorcycle engine rule is a great rule in my opinion! and to further explain: I dont care what the big quads do especially the pro-whiner class!!! my concern is with thew future of the sport,,"the kids clases",,the rule would hurt the 30 parents that spent 10+grand on a mini-mod quad, but would help hundreds of kids that wouldnt have the chance to race because their LT-80's,trx-90's,kaseas,lems,etc. cannot compete w/kx-60 and cr-80 motored mini's. so we are back to a superstock class or a modified 60& 90 class with modded factory quads. now we hear reports of" making racing more affordable". i feel the no motorcycle rule would help w/that (at least with the mini's) have a great day
Posted by: LT80
I agree with mxer.adamsmith:here is the scoop, yes your friends competed in the national TT races and DID recieve a national placement in the TT nationals, just like someone won the MX nationals, then there was the overall GRAND national champion. So there were 3 championships. Most everyone thinks just one.SOOOO,,now we went backwards in my opinion, we had 3 champs, now we will have 2, and soon just 1, as this season will be the last for TT (my opinion).
The promoters is where the lack of spectators responsibility lies, FAST-TRAX promotions have had record attendance (6000+), but then again they have reached into their wallets and got a show together, and the ppl have responded!! NO OTHER promotor has done this. Not by a long shot. And to have Victory Sports get 3 nationals again is beyond me (yes,,the London Ky. mx is really promoted by Victory Sports)is just another slap in the face by the AMA. errr ATVA
POLITICIANS DO NOT RACE,,why is this all so political?!
Posted by: LT80
So,there is no motorcycle engine ban. OK! Fair enuff. Now I want you to ponder this:: there is a 90cc modified class for kids, but it takes a 10-15,000 dollar cr-80 motored quad to compete. They did away w/the SuperStock class, made a non national 50 class, but no 90cc class that the working man can afford (should have a non national 90cc class also)I'm sorry but this sucks!
After attending the GNC banquet this last weekend and hearing the announcer say for the all the youth classes that "these are the stars of tomorrow" Isn't this a giant slap in the face to the working class and your talented kids? MY daughter "Angela Moore" is the reghning 3 time GNC womans class champ. And she started out on a LT-80 and rode one till she could legally race the womans class (16 yrs. old) Hers is a true rags to riches story on my old 250R, but with the good graces of god and a natural talent for quad racing she's where she is today. IS THE ATVA HOLDING YOUR CHILD FROM BEING A FUTURE CHAMPION???? That answer is obvious!
And if you didn't know, at the banquet there was a pass around vote on splitting up the GNC as proposed th go BACKWARDS from 3 awards to 2 (now we have a GRAND National Champ, a MX Champ and a TT champ) "miraculously" the vote was 50/50 to split the clases, going to just a MX champ and a TT champ, but wait, that isn't a vast majority by far! Dosn't most law's and other rules have to pass by a majority?
So this is how I'm stating to see it: the real poll or vote at the banquet should have been "who do you nominate to be president of the ATVA"
We had no vote in who is "OUR" president and with years of quad expierience and one year of GNC expierience the whole next season along with the rules are completely out of order by my way of thinking not to mention people that really count!
The wife over heard tprender say at the banquet: if they get the GNC back that it will be only for a year and that we (the TT lovers and others wanting the GNC back to 3 awards) can't stop it from happening the year after (2003)(hope thats close enuff Tom)WELL,,with that kind of negitive thinking it's no wonder that the sport of TT racing is doomed and it's only a matter of time untill we will have only one national championship,MX. Well then we will have went from 3 championships in one, to just one.
I do not wish to offend anyone by this post but at least I have 6 years of GNC racing under my belt to come up with my opinion, and I love TT racing! I consider it a true honor and achievement to be a recipient of 2 "GRAND" National Championship awards. No one after 2001 will be able to say that! sorry for my rant. Have a great day BR>
Posted by: LT80
Well to update,,me bad. so the 90SS class is still there. GREAT! As for getting involved and not just talking and complaining,PFFFT!
Posted by: LT80
flea:The GNC was a MX champ, a TT champ, and an overall GRAND NATIONAL champ. You never had to come to any TT's or MX's if you didnt want,UNLESS you wanted to be a GRAND national champ. So now there is just a MX champ and a TT champ,nothing GRAND about it!
Posted by: AlaskaYFM
Other good things that may come from this... 440EX... Z440 Quadsport... KXF250R... who knows. This is what Cannondale has been wanting, that is for sure.
Posted by: raptor720
Stroker,
Sorry to see the shifter motorcycle engines banashed from youth atv classes.... NOT.
Who cares, we run the Kasea and always -- yes, always beat the shifters -- including the KX85's. Add some a-arms and real shocks and the CVT youth atv's smoke those oversized motorcycle engine powered youth sofas.
Plus, the little Kasea's only cost about $4500 fully built. I think a pro built KX85 shifter atv costs about 15 grand.
The rules are designed to get more people into the sport. SO, get over it.
Posted by: raptorridah
i kow these are good news to me and others but i think they should hae atleast a seperate class<not pro> for atvs with motorcycle engines
Posted by: Sickman80
I too heard the about the possible ban of bike engines, so I e-mailed the ATVA with my thoughts about it and here is Doug Morris' response,
"Thank you for your feedback. You are the only one to address this topic
correctly. There was a discussion about a possible proposal for 2003. Most
responders thought that some rule had been implemented when it had not. After this discussion there is new information available that was not known when the discussion was held on this topic. I think this subject is dead and will probably not go any farther. I wish John Pellan had not printed his article on ATV Scene, but what is done is done, and we will go forward from here."
Thus no ban on bike engines. Before starting rumors get the facts. Besides, until the manufactures actually treat us with some respect and put money into quad racing, it is cheaper to build a national calibar quad for the nationals with a bike engine than turn a stock quad engine into a potential grenade. Most people have $3000 into a race engine, my YZF is bone stock and costed $1,000, but can run with the best. Even the pro's have relatively little done to the bike engines. Many people think banning bike engines in quads would get the factories interested in actually selling a quad with a good race engine (Bike engine). That is ar from reality, why do that when they can spend less money and still sell as many quads as they would.
Thats how I see it,
Adam
Posted by: Sickman80
First of all, I understand your point on the youth side. It shouldn't cost that much as a youth I know that. I just feel the upper level classes like A, Pro-am, and Pro should be allowed to do as they please. Reason being either way it will cost about the same in those classes. I started on a TRX125 at ten years old and rode that until I could afford to buy MY OWN 250X at the age of 16. Then it got stolen and my parents did help replace it with a 300EX, because although I had asked, they never found out for sure that our homeowners insurance wouldn't cover it until it was too late. But replacing the several thousand dollars of mods was left up to me again, thus I now had a lesser quad for quite some time. I never started racing until I was a junior in high school, because I had to be able to also pay for all repairs. Then I upgraded to a 250R when I turned 20 and started MX racing. In a years time I went from a nobody to one of the guys to beat, so I started getting some help. Then I got tired of breaking my frame, but couldn't afford an aftermarket one, so I stuffed my 330R engine into a 400EX chassis, plus I got ahold of a YZ400F engine and got it to work. Now another year later I have had the good fortune to appear in several Magazines and race a few nationals. At Lauretta Lynns I was in the Top Five in the Open A and Open Pro-am. But a rider I was passing lost it and took me out of the A class. Then the Pro-am I finished off my previously injured foot when landing from a jump, then a ball-joint broke. But I proved I can run with seasoned national racers when I have only raced for two years including only eight times this summer. I now have a sponsorship to do all the nationals for someone, but I still have to find a way to get to them all, which is hard when on a College students budget, unless I happen to be living near them. And to tell you the truth I would like to get to them, because I lapped everybody twice without even trying at my last local event, and thats normal. And I seariously was not riding good at Lauretta's at all, so I know I can do even better. What does all this mean, well I'm in the same boat as you, at least you've got 6 years at the nationals, I just hope to someday get one, because I know I can place high in the points if given the chance. Even Leslie Wells, with whom your daughter competes against, said I should be racing the nationals, because she told me she had never seen anybody blow by her as fast as I did when we raced together (I was running 22 inch tires with 18 inch gearing so I couldn't get a start, but I easily made up for that within a few turns). But I too am stuck trying to compete with people on a much larger budget as well as you, but that will always be the case in the ATV market until the factories start helping. With which I'm not holding my breath. But you know what, if I don't get the opportunity to run the national series that too will be fine. But splitting the series will make it more possible for me, because I can't afford to set up a national calibar TT quad along with an MX quad. I am actually maybe even better at TT than MX, but don't do it because it's too expensive. I love to ride and always will. I will make one or two nationals a year for sure. And for competition I ride with the A class bike riders in my area in trails and on tracks and have allot of fun. But I still want to have the best quad for the cheapest price and right now a bike engine does that. I am actually in the process of developing billot aluminum mount kits to sell that will allow putting either a 250R engine or YZF engine in a 400EX frame as I did, so it will be cheaper for others as well.
Its too bad, but I know not everyone can be pleased. I too feel in the lower classes, there should be stock classes. But also you have too look at it like this. If you are on a bike you have to qualify to even get to a national event; the Amatures have Lauretta Lynns. The Amatures don't do the nationals with the pro's, so maybe that's their thinking when elimnating some classes, I don't know. Whatever it is, contact somebody in the ATVA, state your case in a well written letter as I did, and ask for their point of view so you know where they are coming from. That way you know what angle to state a case for starting a new class, or reinstating one. Or at least you know why for sure.
Adam
Posted by: Flea400EX
Ok please explain this to me. So GNC racers can race mx
and not have to race TT? Theres two different champions?
Kind of like the outdoor and indoor motorcycle series?
Posted by: airtimehocutt
i race local mx races and have spent much of my hard earned money to build a competive 250r. like 90% of the quad world, my funds are limited. i can not afford to build two quads, one for mx and one for tt . as most people will agree, one quad is costly enough. i agree with the split of mx and tt. i think this will give people who would not usually get national reconnition the attention they deserve. i believe the ((((potental)))) to ban motorcycle motors in atv's will help the overall sells of new four stroke quads. if you wanted to race competively, your wasting your time to race a 400 ex in a pro class 4- stroke class. the 400 ex just will not hang with the yz426. so by eliminating the motorcycle motor, you will in fact boost atv sales. i believe suzuki will set the next level of performance with the z400. and i think honda and kaw. will bejoining the ranks by the end of this year. i believe four wheeler racing is going to take off and grow like motor cycle racing did back in the 80's. this new production pro class in 2003 will be a great thing for our sport.
now the average person can buy a quad from the show room floor and go racing. (atleast in the b and c classes). as for the youth classes, all i can say is my son is three and i hope they get that mess figured out by the time he gets old enough to ride. fellow atv racer, airtime
