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Posted by: cctman
I was in a Honda shop the other day and was talking to the parts guy behind the counter about general Honda ATV info and I noticed an extreme motocross bike video playing in the background. So I asked the guy, "dude how come everytime I come in here you guys are always playing the same dirtbike videos, why don't you guys play Huevos the ATV video or such?" The guy kind of shook his head and a couple of wannabe MX dirtbike guys just started laughing beside me. I turned and looked at them and was like what wtf? I said "excuse me what sup?" One of the guys proceded to tell me that ATV's were far from being extreme. He pointed at the video where this guy was doign a nack nack on a tripple jump and started gloating that until ATV's could do that, that they would never be in the same league. Well, I told these guys I had been riding ATVs for about 15 years. And that now more than ever there were alot more sport ATVs out and could do alot more than any dirtbike. So basically we got into this long fight about Dirtbike vs ATV. I was arguing that until a dirtbike could throw its a$$ end around on a dune throwing sand 35 foot in the air, or tackle mud, snow, and powerslide that they could never be totally extreme. Obviously they cared little to even slightly pay attention to what I was saying. I didn't even finish talking before one of the guys got up in my face, and we almost all got kicked out of the Honda shop. Man, wtf? Has there always been a rivalry like this between dirtbike guys and ATV guys? This is crazy. I stay over on the dark side of things in the ATV world and never get out I guess. Is this a new generation thing, I'm better than you type mentality or what? I have never seen this before anywhere....
Posted by: cctman
<< Until I see a quad with 12" suspension, a 125cc motor with more power than a 400 ex, and the technology of a new MX bike, u can keep your ATV.
P.S. You can throw roost in sand, you can slide, and i go through snow better than my uncle on his old 230 quadsport. >>
OK chump.... Obviously you have never seen a houevos video huh? You can jump a quad just about as far as you can a dirtbike. There is virtually nothing you can do on a dirtbike that you can not do on a quad. I would like to see you pull a powerslide on a full size modified quad around a corner while up on the two rear wheels while your laying on the gas. Now thats a rush! That aint going to happen on a dirtbike. And no I have seen many dirtbike videos with top pro riders riding in the dunes. I don't call a roost one where you plant your right foot down on the ground while you attempt to throw sand in the air all the while trying to prevent from keeping the bike from falling over. I dont know maybe its just me, but any sport where you have to put your foot down on a machine everytime you stop kind of reminds me of someone that just graduated from having training wheels. I have seen alot of bikes tip over and I remember many times having to step down in a foot of mud on my kdx200 just because I had to stop. I guess thats just one of the benefits of having more contact surface and 4 wheels. However I do not include sportbikes in this analogy because I consider 140hp sportbikes to me mile stones over 30-50 hp smaller dirtbikes. They way I see it is there is an ATV for almost everything you want to do and everyone. Another thing I see as a draw back to dirtbikes is that you can really only modify them so much before they just get to much of a power to weight ratio, and just plain uncontrollable and dangerous. You don't see to many 75+hp dirtbikes around do you? Nope! but you do see some crazy modified ATV's all over the place with that much hp. I have even seen modified crotch rocket engines in ATV's. You would never see that in a dirtbike because there isn't enough contact surface on the rubber to get that much power to the ground. So the argument I'm trying to demonstrate here is that if you really want to get extreme and go for the wicked hp, then you graduate to ATVs and mod the pi$$ out of your ATV. There just more dual purpose. When I lived in Florida and in Georgia that was the one thing I hated about dirtbikes was that you always had to put your foot down while you were sliding around a corner which meant smacking a cactus with your leg occasionally or worse running into a cactus patch and having to put your foot down in it to back out of it. Never seemed to have this problenm when I owned an ATV. Dude I could write a freekin disortation on why ATVs are better than dirtbikes. I have seen more dirtbikes wipe out around sandy coners trying to keep up with ATVs than I have seen ATVs wreck. And I'm not talking about hard packed dirt. I'm talking about white powder sand as in Florida and sand dunes. Damn! you have got me started! Oh well.... !
Posted by: cctman
Ugly ...I dunno about the whole 125cc dirtbike doing the same thing as a 250r ATV. Now if you had said CR250 then I might agree with ya.. I have also spent alot of time on a CR125 as well and also spent some time on one in the Little Sahara sand dunes in Utah against a banshee(stock). They both just about hung with each other except when we did the hill climbs espially a few of us that were over 170lbs. It just didn't have the torque that you need. Of course its just about as quick but it weighs almost half that of a 250r ATV anyways. It is a shame that many dirtbikers cannot get along with ATV's. But there deffinately is a distinct brotherhood difference between the two groups. And many times they argue and even fight with one another.
Bob, I think you skipped a few of my comments above. First off I didn't start the fight nor draw first blood and make the distinguish between ATVers and Dirtbikers. The guys at the shop did. There lucky they ended up walking away that day unscathed.
OK RMX now I have heard everything.. you said a "Hillclimber i know rides a kx500 frame with a 150 hp Suzuki GS850 engine" yeah right. There is no way you can use that type of hp with that size of a contact patch. If you want to argue with me about this one go ahead, I have owned many crotch rockets. I think you and your friend are smoking crack. Second of all, a GS850 engine I think is hardly going to put out that kind of hp numbers. Now my zx9 engine yes. But I doubt the GS can. But that is besides the point. As far as you whining about putting your foot down and blaming it on your friends. Maybe you need to just find a faster group to ride with. Come ride with us sometime on 250r ATV's. I doubt you would be able to keep up. You want to get extreme put down your poser enduro bike down and ride something that takes more skill a highly modified ATV. What a baby!!
Posted by: cctman
RMX251 I'm not trying to bash you dude. But you just help me to define my point even more. Riding a quad is easier to learn then riding a ATV true. But when you put down the slower quads, and go for the more powerful ones today you will find that there is virtually nothing you can't do on a quad that you can do on an bike. You mentioned that you had a LT230 quad sport for 3years. Come on man ... of course your newer dirtbike is going to kill that that quad. The LT230 isn't even in the same league as the older Honda 250ex. If you had come from a high performance ATV then I would understand. The fact remains .. you don't see a lot of guys going from banshees, 250r's, Raptors, Bombs, and Cans to riding CR250 dirtbikes. You do however see a lot of good motorcycle riders going back to quads these days. Espially since the ATV market has become hotter than ever. The motorcycle industry has pretty much peaked out in recent years. You don't see a lot of new first time, redesigned chassis. Even though I'm a 2 stroker at heart, your going to see a lot of new technology trickling down hill for the pro ATVers. And if you take a closer look the ATV market is increasing a lot faster in size than the motorcycle market. Your starting to see a lot more shops carry more ATV's that use to be dominant in carrying dirtbikes. Something else to think about is that it is true that the learning curve is shorter on an ATV then on a dirtbike, but when you get really good it switches. It takes alot more practice, skill and physical strength to demand the same performance on an ATV at track or any jump. So when you actually think of it on a professional level, I think the ATVers are deffinatley one up on the dirtbikers. The best example I can think of is the amount of coordination and physical strength it takes to counter corrections in the air if and when you hit an off cambered jump. Where as if you had a dirtbike you don't have to worry as much about your approach on a jump. See my point? I found ATVs to be more challenging and dual purpose this is why I went back to them after owning KDX200.
ltracerx
...I agree with you completly!
Posted by: cctman
twostroke... what you have done to your quad has no bearing to comparing a equally modified or stock to stock 250ex vs. lt230. There would still be no contest. I could probably put a turbo charger on a Honda CRX to take a stock mustang, but this means nothing in saying that the stock Honda CRX is on the same page as a stock Mustang.
Posted by: cctman
Yeah... I think I need an award...hehe!
Posted by: Stroker
Text cctman: it's a crappy thing that occurs occasionally all over. Up here in WI I don't really notice it much until we go to an AMA MX race or an AMA Shorttrack event. The quad guys are expected to practice absolutely first at like the crack of dawn then usually don't race till last ( even both motos). When we go shorttracking they always water the bejesus out of the track then have all the quad guys go make laps till the track sets in. This I don't mind but if for some reason the track doesn't turn out good the dirt biker types always blame us, not the track owners/promoters. Other than that I have many friends that ride bikes and they all have an open mind. Just stay true to your quad beliefs and roost on brutha.
Posted by: bob
cctman.... what is the point of the thread? to try to separate atvers from dirtbikers? if theres any other sport/recreation as close to atvs as dirtbikes are what is it. seems like ppl u should try to get along with.
as to why atvs are better than dirt bikes? differnt needs for differnt ppl. why is one quad better than another? if ppl didnt want differnt things from thier machines there would be 1 atv that everyone rode, and theyd all be the same.
if a group of dirtbikers at the shop likes watching dirtbikes, why complain....its not like their always watching oprah everytime u go in.
no need to split up groups of 'us' that might otherwise help keep groups like the sierra club in check
Posted by: sAyIt_fmf
Interesting post. I have a banshee, 400ex and numerous dirt bikes... I like them both alot. All kidding aside. I have been riding on 2 wheels just as long as four. The dirt bike can do whatever a quad can do...and most of the time more. I'm talking sport, not work horse. I can jump a bike twice as far as a quad. Not that a quad cannot do it....they are quite capable. But all the extra weight...and for the most part poor suspension...makes for a much harsher ride on the quad.
Someone who posted above is totally correct. There are some people on quads that can do all the high flying tricks out there. But the bike guys defy much gravity...and they do not have to fight a heavy machine to do it.
Unless you have ridden...AND gotten good on both machines...there is really no comparison. Less fatigue on the bike, lighter weight, power to weight....goes on and on.
Also mentioned was mental awareness....you cannot just sit there on a bike. You will dump it every time. Most quad riders know that they can take a breather, so to say, if they want. Your feet never have to hit the ground unless you want them too. With a bike...you are either into it...or on the ground.
Out of all the quad races I have been to...how many time do you see a guy on a quad with his/her butt on the seat? Take a look at a dirt bike race...do you see the same thing? Probably not...the guy on the bike will get thrown for a loop if he sits.
Posted by: sAyIt_fmf
I agree with everything except the sitting part. I find it much easier to balance the quad and get power to the ground while standing and leaning back...or forward as required.
I think most people are sitting down on the job because of fatigue. The quad weighs in at almost double the bike. So unless the quad rider is a he-man...he will tire more quickly...thus sitting down.
Other than that...As mentioned...I like them both...just for different reasons. If I could take a two stroke dirt bike and comfortably trail ride with it all day long, I would have no use for a four wheeler unless it was a Utility and I could keep my yard clean with it. The magic is that you CAN...get lazy and cruise all day long on a quad.
Posted by: sAyIt_fmf
correct sir!!
Like I said...to each their own. Everyone has a riding style that is unique to THEM....that's what makes it fun. If everyone rode the same way...things would get boring really fast.
Posted by: rmx251
Until I see a quad with 12" suspension, a 125cc motor with more power than a 400 ex, and the technology of a new MX bike, u can keep your ATV.
P.S. You can throw roost in sand, you can slide, and i go through snow better than my uncle on his old 230 quadsport.
Posted by: rmx251
I'm so sorry you have to keep putting your foot down, God forbid it take a little bit of skill and balance to ride off road. The ONLY time I stop and put my foot down is when my lazy ATV riding friends STOP in the middle of a trail "to rest". And for hp, the Hillclimber i know rides a kx500 frame with a 150 hp Suzuki GS850 engine. You know why dirt bikers can't slide around in the sand on 2 back wheels? We only have one back wheel.
Posted by: rmx251
I rode an ATV for 3 years, an old LT230S, and bought my dirt bike 6 monthes ago. One thing i learned right off the bat is how EASY it was riding a 4wheeler. You may think it sounds stupid, especially if you never ridden a MX bike before. The truth is it takes more skill, practice, and effort to ride a dirt bike. I do get along with most ATV guys, just not the one's (my uncle) that make fun of dirt bikes and us who ride them.
Posted by: rmx251
QuadMXr70 does have a good idea, race ready quads. The AMA forced the manufacturers to make better bikes in the 70's with the factory bike rule. That's what ATV's need right now, instead of guys making a custom Banshee with a 426 motor for racing, they could force Yamaha to do this to keep a good reputation on the track.
Posted by: rmx251
Now even that was funny.
Posted by: wurm250
I have found that when talking to dirt bike riders you have too talk S-L-O-W-L-Y :-)
Posted by: bmxatv10
Yeah just keep an open mind and keep it real. Obviously they don't ride sport quads so how the hell would they know?
Keep it real dudes!
Posted by: bmxatv10
Right on Ugly!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Posted by: ugly
I hvae been riding atv's since I was 4.I am now 16.I have a highly moded 250r.I know what a type of the line race qaud feels like.
But a couple weekends ago I got a chance to ride a 2001 cr125 for an extended period of time.I went every where on it.Up some steep hill cimbs,double jumps,whoops everything.(except mud seeing as it was not my bike)
But anyway this bike is bone stock and it performed better than my 250r.It was just as fast in a straigh line and jumped alot better.after I got comfortable on it pulling a wheelie in 4th was no prob.Now yes My 250r can pop a wheelie in forth but it also has about 4 grand in mods!
For less than I paid for my 250r I could have a brand new 125 that was just as good.
Yes I am way more comfortable on my 250r than the Cr.And would rather have my 250.
Both of them could be extreme and do a 100 ft double.U could do a nac-nac on both,etc.
I have found most dirtbike guys to be really nice but also found some that are jerks.So goes in the qaud world though.
But when I was riding the Cr I went up to a couple guys and asked them if they had saw my freind on my R and they seemed alot more freindly since I was on the bike.
I don't know.I think There is more than enough room on the trails for both qauds and bikes.And he we are all in this fight togother!
86 trx250r setup for mx
97 300ex
Posted by: PhilMoore
Ever since those biker decided that to be "cool" one has to have that rediculous two-tone-hair-do, everything has gone down hill...
BR>
Posted by: ltracerx
I think that the only thing MXers have on us is that they have to balance a little more than us, but you know what, if you ride a dirtbike that means you can walk, and that means you already know how to balance just like the rest of us that can walk(no offense to anyone that can't) we are on 2 feet so it's the same thing so MXers, "you quad riders suck cause you don't have to balance" Guess what, we have been balacing since we were a year old so now what are you gonna find wrong with us, we're too fast?" And something else, I really hate it when people say it is so easy to do tricks on a quad cause if you screw up, you won't wreck cause you are on 4 wheels, BS!!!!
Posted by: ltracerx
I know what a MX bike is like, I went from an 87 LT230 to a CR250 that was basically everything but stock, the one thing I miss about it is how easy it was to jump, and also in tight trails. I could jump and do tricks on that and to me it was easier than on a quad. The reason I got rid of it was because I grew up on a quad so I just decided to go back to quads. And BTW, there is now way that a CR125 has all that power you say it does unless it is an older one cause I rode my buddies 95 and his friends 99 and they both felt sluggish compared ot my 250R.
Posted by: ltracerx
Finally someone agree's with me!
Posted by: ltracerx
OK, I partially agree with you. It is alot easier to jump a bike big, and my CR250 soaked up more bumps and high jumps then any of my quads so far, but it did have aftermarkewt supension. And another thing, when I wrecked on my CR it didn't really hurt me that much(laid it over in a corner and on some rocks) but the one time I wrecked hard on my quad it hurt like a biiiaaatch. I guess my point is that riding a bike hard is easier than riding a quad hard. Another thing, the reason people sit on quads all the time is to keep there weight shifted correctly so it doesn't flip. I am sure you know that, but to anyone that doesn't, now you know.
Posted by: ltracerx
But you can still get lazy on a bike sort of!! just have to balance it a little, which isn't very hard. As for the whole sitting standing thing, it's all just prefernce. For example, I can ride a wheely all day long when I sit down, but can't even get the front end up when I am standing, but when I have to do a quick 180, it is easier to stand with your weight forward and just whip the quad around, so basically different things require different positions, not just sitting all day or standing all day.
Posted by: ltracerx
Yes, I own Huevos 2. People are just stuck on the fact that you don't have to "balance" a quad, which you do have to do if you ride hard!
Posted by: quadMXer70
Guys, guys! Don't let ignorant bike riders get to you! There are ignorant ATV riders just as there are ignorant bikers (probably more ignorant bikers than ATVers) but all the same... just don't let them get to you.
Not all dirt bike guys are like that. But there will always be some. Stay cool, laid back, and stay true to what you like to do. Don't let biker guys intimidate you.
Our sport will soon progress... with race-ready quads from the manufacturers, and TV coverage. BUT even if our sport becomes more extreme than biking, there will still ALWAYS be people like that. Just learn to deal with it, and have fun... Life is too short to be pi**ed off at everyone.
Posted by: CdaleRacer
Here is something that I find interesting. I've heard and read a few times that MX racers are the most fit athletes of any sport. I assume that when this was said and wrote they were reffering to MX bike racers, because it was etheir on tv when a MX bike race was going on or in a bike mag. Now we all know that quads are harder to ride. It takes more muscle to get them to rail a corner without messing up, square off a corner without messing up, keep them tracking straight and true through whoops or other rough sections, and to get them to fly through the air straight so the landing will be o.k. I just wonder how MX quad riders rank in the fittness of athletes. Seems like quad MX racers should be on top dosen't it. I'm not talking about guys like myself, heck a golf player is probably more fit than I am , Im talking about PRO racers like Hitt, Jones, Farr, Byrd, Gust, ect. At Loretta Lynns when Jones finished and they were talking to him over the pa he didnt even seem out of breath! Anyway its kind of off the topic but I'm just wondering what everyone else thinks.
Posted by: CdaleRacer
Yodaddy,any Cannondale would be a good choice I think. I also think the new models would be the way to go since they have all the updates and GP control system. The only thing that concerns me about the new Cannibal are the cheaper shocks, I'm not for shure if they would be up to MX racing. The ones on the Speed (same as on my FX) are good. The rear shock is Awesome! Anyway I love my FX and I dont think there will ever be anything but a Cannondale under me. The frame and engine have held up good so far and Ive had it for 6 months tommorow I think. Go test ride one and your mind will be made up within 5 min. I GARANTEE.
Posted by: raptorridah
alright
lets start a protest!!!
quads rule now and forever!
Posted by: WANTINGa250r
have you ever seen heuvos 2 or best of atv extreme, on heuvos 2 jeremy mcgrath explaines why he rides a banshee, he doesn't have it mastered and its hard to jump cuz the lips arent perfect, on the atv extreme the guy talks about how they race the same tracks and the same amount of laps as the dirtbikes but its like riding a refrigirator around, you have to muscle it and it takes a lot of work. quads ride on the same tracks as the dirt bike gnc and do the same jumps and everything, and go up sand hills at 80 miles an hour, damn
-jacob-
Posted by: twostroke
cctman, don't bash the old lt230, I have an 85 that has the 273 kit, and
it would run circles around a 250x. Hell, it'll pull a holeshot on my
piped & ported 99shee.
Posted by: Banshee224
CCTMAN DO U HAVE A LIFE IS THIS ALL U DO? U HAVE LIKE 25234845745 SENTENCES IN YOUR POSTS....
Posted by: YoDaddy
I haven't seen a dirt bike do any water skipping yet. Also, it may look like quad riders sit down all the time but if you look closely a lot of the time they are like an inch off of the seat. Since quads don't track as smoothly as bikes do, standing helps and it keeps your center of gravity down low while still being able to adjust yourself quickly. Thats how I ride anyways... if you don't agree than I just ride weird.
Posted by: YoDaddy
Hey CdaleRacer,
How do you like your FX 400? I'm about to buy a Cannibal and would like to know if you think that would be a good choice. I race mx and I sometimes trail ride but very rarely. Sorry for getting off subject.
