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Posted by: Rudedog
Hmmmm it's an Alpha Sports... I haven't seen them up close.. though I'd wonder if the functionallity is similar to an LT80?? Pulley in front with rollers, and a friction clutch with a drum and springs in the rear? If so... It would seem as though your stall speed is off... That's usually worked @ the rear clutch... The most common thing to do is remove weight off of the 3 arms IE: lighten them... This then requires the engine to rev higher to engage the rear clutch. ALso stiffer springs on the (rear) clutch arms adds more of the same effect. The one big rear spring controls the rear pulley rate and tension.. My understanding on the front is: different roller weights control the shifting from high to low speed... What your after is getting the (2) to work together... A fair amount of hair can be lost in this process.... Again with the Alpha ... I'm not sure if it's similar to the LT80 design, so possibly this may be off...?
Rude Dog
Posted by: LT80
Yes, try different roller weights. Course, you've been told that allready.
Try 30-40 grams of roller weight and see what it does.
When you change springs, you change roller weight. It's a matter of roler weight to spring rate.
Clutch mods don't work w/o motor mods..period. I question the need for the clutch spring, especially the 2000 rated one.
Posted by: LT80
Hey guys, remember the thread where this guy cobbled a pipe together and then refused to believe us that a pipe has to be built right?
With that said, WHAT pipe ya got JBL?? I see you said "custom pipe" but after thinking about it, and all the roller expierements, It seems that this part of the equation might be part of it.
BTW that other guy never got back to inform us of the actuall problem (at least I didn't see it). I figure we all hit it on the head for him....The pipe.
Just a thought.
Posted by: LT80
The technigas is liked by some, not by others. I have no problem with it.
It is a harder pipe to tune the clutchs to.
Your answer is going to be the real light rear clutch pack that WRH has. The rear shoes are too heavy and contacting the drum early, even with the 2000 rated lil shoe springs. You could expierement with lightening your shoes if you like.
I think the others will agree. BR>
I can't wait to hear what the shop says. Please update.
Posted by: LT80
That's what I'm thinking Mark.
Posted by: LT80
Now is when the lil springs in the rear clutch shoes come into play. Yours are still stock or aftermarket?
Posted by: LT80
" should have left the whole thing stock and just put in the engine mods! This is very frustrating"
This is why I (and others) offer a complete motor kit.::
motor mods will not work w/o clutch mods
clutch mods do not work w/o motor mods.
they need to work together.
"Do you know exactly where to install them? Thanks for the haelp."
Now here's a guy that feels the need for rollers but don't even know where to put them. (sorry dude, just making a point, not ragging on you personnaly)
The moral to all this::
Call WRH, Hetrick,Lucky7, that Moore guy, anyone that lives minis. You'll have fewer heart attacks and much more fun doing it right the first time. BR>
Posted by: LT80
ATVMike, Roller replacement is very easy. You take the clutch cover off. You remove the front clutch fixxed face and the variator slides right off. The rollers are in there. Simply replace and re-install.
An impact wrench is usually used to remove the front clutch nut.
This will take about 1/2 hour the first time, you'll get onto it and do it in minutes.
Posted by: Raptorlegs
Only spring I've seen marked 2000 rpm is the torsion spring and it has little to do with the clutch stall. Were the 3 springs on the clutch replaced? I'd highly recommend an aftermarket clutch along with your rollers.
Also, you might consider changing your pipe. I doubt most customs will work anywhere close to as well as the WRH or Hetrick pipes designed for these engines. It would also allow the builders to pinpoint the clutch settings you need. Otherwise it's trial and error and if you have to use a mechanic just for springs........it's probably never going to get dialed in right (assuming that's even possible).
Posted by: Raptorlegs
You need an impact (air) wrench.
Posted by: Raptorlegs
Alpha Sports.
Posted by: Raptorlegs
It's the same set up as Polaris, Eeton, Kasea etc etc. But they must be similar to the lt80 because I think you nailed it. I drilled my stock clutch out, the results were OK with stiffer springs. But the aftermarket clutches are aluminum and weigh about 1/3 of the stocker. Worked better. That's why I recommended that route.
Posted by: Raptorlegs
sssduane, I don't think that would explain why it bogs and then takes off when he picks up some speed. That has cvt written all over it imo.
Posted by: Raptorlegs
If there is a lag, your clutching is off. I think you mentioned sand at one point. That will kill your takeoff ability if you put paddles on it.
At the very least, you should try to drill out the clutch to lighten it. And fyi, the bell has nothing to due with it other than some are slotted to dissipate heat.
Posted by: Raptorlegs
Been there. Your kid will just have to keep his momentum and don't stop pointed up hill. Once it gets rolling, you'll be fine.
Posted by: DANO38
Is the engine revving but the bike just isn't accelerating??? Just finished modding out my youngest boy's this spring, and using the 4 gram weights they sent it screamed but didn't accelerate hard until halfway down the straightaways. replaced all weights with 4.5 gram weights and it is much better now... it accelerates hard from the start now. Am running the yellow rear big spring and koso small rear clutch springs (2000 rpm I think). On the engine side, what is your compression now? I hope you get it dialed in.
Hqr109, where did that trick looking rear swing arm on the 2003 pred 90 in your pictures come from???
Posted by: Fastestdad
If it worked before the 2K springs then something is probably together wrong. I have seen the rollers put in sideways a few times so it is like holding the bike in high gear all the time. The 2K springs whether they were the 3 little engagement springs or the rear torsion spring wouldnt hurt lowend. This and many other problems are often times from ebay scammers or other parts sellers promising "huge horsepower increase" from a $3 or $20 spring. Call Billy at WRH Racing or Hetrick racing and get it lined out.
Posted by: Fastestdad
That site gives a few incorrect answers to common questions. Modified Dinli 90 (93ccs) 56.2 mph by GPS. Mild ported,piped Arctic cat 90 (82.5 ccs)48.8 mph. My girls Arctic cat 90 whips them both very badly but I'm not sure of top speed it runs mid 40s MPH in 300 feet on sand and is just getting wound up, wayyy fast top speed.
Posted by: newnick
Atvmike, sounds like you need a diagram of your motor before you tear into it. Etonamerica.com might have a parts diagram on their website with a exploded veiw and part names. Miniatvs.com has a technical section on their site with some manuals to Etons and Polaris's. Behind the kickstarter is where you find the trans parts. There are two nut's close to the kickstarter shaft on the cover, do not remove those nuts. They hold the kickstarter in the cover and I think it is very hard to put back together once removed. This is on the left side if your behind the quad. The right side is the stator and flywheel. Front is cylinder, piston etc.
Posted by: HQR109
i agree with raptorlegs. i ran a modded motor with stock carb for a long time and my son won many races with it. either clutch and variater or since you added a 54mm cylinder you could have a large squish area which means low compression.
Mark
Posted by: HQR109
thats riley holts predator, son of billy owner of wrh racing. the swingarm was built by kenny vaughn of k-fab in texas. it is all aluminum. you ought to see the one thats on it now. it has a honda style round billet aluminum bearing carrier on it. how you like the filter box on the front bumper i built for it. worked real good too.
Mark
Posted by: HQR109
hope the shop arent like the ones around here. i end up with most the minis around here because the shops know nothing about them. one poor fella had his dinli at our local honda shop for 6 months then took it to another shop where it sat for a couple more. he finally called me and i had it running the next day, it was a bad stator but the shops didnt have a clue. good luck
Mark
Posted by: HQR109
ditto jack darn minis i dream about them. takes a whole package to make it run right. most bike shops dont have a clue about these little quads. its like when i was a car nut, dont do no good to put a big cam in if you dont add other parts to go with it. sure it sounds cool but it runs like a dog.
Mark
Posted by: lon426
I'm not sure if I'm the guy that you're talking LT80 but I did try to chop up an yz80 exhaust and fit it in a eton viper 90 but I realized real quick that its not worth the head ache. I bought a pipe from Ron Kersey instead and have been very happy with it.
Lonnie
Posted by: JBL
Drove the quad in the street to see how it felt after the 54mm install and 120 jet withUni filter, custom pipe. Quad starts off soooo slow since I had a mechanic change the springs to allegedly 2000. It used to take off fast but I read in this forum changing springs to 2000 would help in sand. (made it worse) It now takes off sooooo slow, But once the bike got going after about 50 feet it built up speed and took off! Then went out to the desert today and the quad couldnt even spin tire in the dirt nor pick up top speed. Son was totally upset and rode his faster brothers Eton90. I read I need a carb, it comes with a Mikuni stock, but I dont have the $$$ right now. Before I take it to the shop and have the mechanic go back to the stock clutch springs, is that the problem or should I try the roller weights first at 27-30 grams? Thanks to all that have helped me previously. 8 year old son is in tears so we both appreciate the help!
Posted by: JBL
Tried the roller weights today at 24grams, 30, and what I found in there and that was 48grams. Nothing helped. I will be taking the quad to the shop tomorrow to replace clutch springs and or torsion springs. I cant seem to get that first nut off. Thanks for the help, i'll keep you guys posted.
Posted by: JBL
Quads in the shop today hope to get it out by the weekend. I'll keep you guys posted.
Posted by: JBL
I was working with Billy at WRH but I had to get the parts in time for my boys birthday. Billy said he might have it in time and unfortunately he did not. Im undecided what upgrade would be next either the 24mm carb or a racing cluth. The quad reallyl hauls once it does get going but the rev limiter keeps it from anything further. Gonna try the gearing next since its the least costly. I told the mechanic not to return the quad until the alpha sports is popping wheelies! He assured me he will work on it till its right.
Posted by: JBL
The pipe is from spain and its a technigas. The motor revs great and its fast once it gets going, I mean real fast. I havent heard back from the shop but Im supposed to get it by Thursday and I'll let you guys know. Will a new CDI answer the question with the revs topping out while at top speed?
Posted by: JBL
Stopped by the shop to check on the quad today. Mechanic replaced what I thought was a 2000 spring when in actuality, it was 1500. Kept the 30mg rollers weights up front and wow. Thats how it should have been the very first time. Wide open throttle, it wound up for all of 2 seconds and just took off screaming the whole way down the alley!!! I had a smile on my face the whole way and it had instant power when I lay off the gas to slow for a turn and as long as I didnt come to a complete stop. I weigh 175lbs so I can imagine how my 65lb boy is gonna feel. The real test will be when I get a chance to try it in the loose dirt. I'll keep you guys posted!!! Thanks for everyone's input!!!
Posted by: JBL
after thought. He said the clutch springs were fine with the true 2000 spring (red color) and he tried different roller weights but best set up was 30mg rollers with the red 2000 spring. I didnt ask what clutch springs he used since he was going on about getting a lighter clutch bell and clutch set up with gearing. So that may be my next purchase but still undecided. Some of you guys swear to a 24mm carb with a 130 jet, others say CDI and others say clutch bell. there are obviously tons of ways to set up a quad to perform for a given situation, but my boy doesnt want to race, just wants to tear up the next 90cc next to him and not get stuck in sand. Your help in next mod purchase is always welcome. Cant thank each of you guys enough!
Posted by: JBL
Picked up the alpha sports and test drove it for a while. Quad has the 2 second lag once WOT but than quickly grabs and takes off. Tried it in the grass up hill and it worked out fine. Of course I weight 175lbs so son gave it a try and was definetly impressed. Hope it does not get stuck going to Pismo Beach for the 4th of July. With 30grams rollers and a 2000 spring, is this how its supposed to respond? I would actually prefer it to just take off once throttle is applied. Is that a bad thing? For you racers, isnt immediate response from the throttle and clutch ideal? I just think a quick take off like my other stock Eton 90 would be better.
Posted by: JBL
the mechanic said that the clutch springs were changed. Now Im concerned since the trip to Pismo is next week. And once I put paddles on it might get stuck. I should have left the whole thing stock and just put in the engine mods! This is very frustrating
Posted by: JBL
Performance Update> Finally took the trip to Pismo beach and took the little quad out. Worked like a charm. Did not get stuck at all around the camp and fairly deep up to the fence. Only got stuck when it was really soft and up long hills. I mean no 90 could make it not even a 150cc. My son loves how his quad works now but as usual there's a problem. He's only 8 and now he wants a much faster quad. He's looking at the internet for a Suzuki 250!. I wouldnt mind but he's too small to handle it. But thanks for everyone's help with getting it going!
Posted by: sssduane
I have to agree with Fastest Dad, check those weights. When I put mine back together I double checked before I put the cover back on and one of the weights rolled on its side.
Posted by: sssduane
Saw that you did pipe it. Once I piped mine with the stock carb it would take some to time to get it moving. I did open the jet up and it improved. I also went with a 24mm Kiehen carb, and swear I have a 130 main in it.
Posted by: sssduane
Going agianst what the others said, I don't think its the clutch. (did you change all the springs, (3 small and one big?)
I modified my Dinli, with-
Koso pipe- dog at first, the opened up the jet, worked better.
Installed the new weights, clutch springs and rear pulley spring. Also put on a new CDI and 24 mm carb with a 130 main ( I beleive), runs like a raped ape. With the stock clutch pack.
I think you need a bigger carb and get rid of the stock CDI. I know its not cheap, but thats my input. I think that 16mm with a pipe is killing your ride.
Posted by: sssduane
I agree also Rap, if all he did was replace the weights with no springs. The thing is with all the mods he has done, its hard to troubleshoot. With these little bike, just changing a filter to aftermarket without jetting will make them fall on their faces, let alone a big bore, pipe and possibly just the rollers.
Posted by: sssduane
I'm still wondering if he replaced the springs or just did the rollers. I don't think he ever mentioned that.
Posted by: sssduane
I think what your calling lag is the clutch stalling.
Did the 3 small springs get changed out also?
Posted by: sssduane
I know where your coming from on the size issue. My son loves his Dinli but he just turned 11 and is 5 foot tall and 105 lbs. I did get a third bike, a 300EX, which he rides once in a while and will be his in a year or two. Great for learning to use a clutch, and is a good all round kid quad which can be modded later for more power.
Posted by: sssduane
I'm not sure how many mph my Dinli does, I know she scoots pretty good. Maybe after the desert cools down I'll take it out on a dirt road with a buddys GPS and clock it, course thta'll be with my 245 lbs on it, then again maybe I'll ask my buddy (165lbs) to run it.
Modded Dinli 90 at 56 mph, thtas fast.
Posted by: smb05
Here you go CVT Parts
Posted by: smb05
atvmike92,
Here check this site out. It will give you all the information you ever wanted to know about your CVT.
CVT School
Posted by: SEADAWG
Sir,
What type of quad? SEADAWG
Posted by: atvmike92
Does anybody know where to get 9g roller weights? I looked for about an hour and couldnt find anything. Thanks.
Posted by: atvmike92
Thanks. And I just remebered about this sight bill2099 told me about. Bladeatv.com
Do you know exactly where to install them? Thanks for the haelp.
Posted by: atvmike92
That awsomebuggy place has good parts too. If I get these rollers w/ the sprocket kit Im planning to get it will be one of these two places.
Posted by: atvmike92
Thanks smb05. Has a lot of info on there.
Posted by: atvmike92
yeah ive only been riding for a little over a year. Not that much engine experience. know
a decent amount about quads, though. Sometimes I talk to people about them soo much
they start to get annoyed.lol I know a little bit about the japanese engines. These chinese
engines are weird looking to me. Theres a big empty spot near the back and parts are
a pain to take out. But how much are complete motor kits? I would rather take my quad
to a shop to have parts installed, but they are expensive at the yamaha and other
japanese shops. Would the chinese brand shop I bought it from be expensive if I had them
install rollers? Thanks.
Posted by: atvmike92
Thanks lt80. Now if you are standing behind the quad the clutch cover is on the left side? Because I think the pistons and cranks are in the black part on the right.
Posted by: atvmike92
Thanks for the help. Ill try those websites.
Posted by: Qwadwheeler
Posted by: scooter0946
how fast is your dinli now mph i can only get 37 out of mine
