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Posted by: guerryb
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Originally posted by: Dragginbutt
Well, I used to think the same way.. and will admit that the container units have earned their reputation, one disgruntled owner at a time... but they have been responsible for introducing a great number of new riders to our sport that would not necessarily have jumped in if they had to buy one of the big boys right off the bat.
Uhhhh, I really don't agree with that. Many people that get these entry level machines are people that have no one to guide them away from inevitable disappontment. If they don't know about how bad these machines are, they are likely to be turned off by the whole ordeal and turn to another recreation that isn't as costly. You can easily find good quality used major brand rides for what a new low quality quad will cost.
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I have stated before that I have always suspected this whole deal to be a way for the big boys to get someone hooked, knowing that they will get frustrated and move up to a more reliable machine... and the fact that in many ways, the cheap knockoffs are being made under license to the big boys sort of proves my point.. but I have to admit I love a conspiracy theory as much as the next guy.
The notion that Honda has sold the rights to their patents, tooling and engineering designs is an urban myth. I've heard this for years and have never been able to substantiate this with Honda or anyone else. The reason many engines and designs look like Hondas is because the 3rd world or communist govermemnts like in China do not recognize or honor any international commerce laws. You can get a copy of Windows XP for 5 bucks! A inexpensive "bootleg copy" of the popular Jeep Cherokee is sold in China that the "real" manufacturer has not been able to stop them from making. These countries are the source of things like $5 Rolexs too. I guess Rolex sold them rights to produce that stuff because they needed the money or competition.
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The issue right here, right now is how to determine what is wrong, and how to get them back running again... without being judgmental.
Many people will read these posts looking for information prior to making a purchase. It is important that the truth be laid out for everyone to see. While helping these folks resolve their numerous problems, a healthy discussion of what is wrong won't hurt anyone! Although this post is looking for help getting it running again, it also gives great insight into the major issue of the absense of a real dealer network or a national service organization. What good is a warranty when there is no one to stand behind it.
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I know this is stating the obvious.. but have you checked and confirmed the big three yet? Air, Fuel, and spark... Once you have that, you can go to things like compression etc... I will say though that if the battery is low, you might get a weak spark... but not one strong enough to fire up the mixture.... Just a thought.
I have seen low compression reading on these smaller engines as a result of the type of compression gauges being used. The percentage of volume lost in the hoses that go between the gauge and the head is far greater on these small engines as compared to higher displacement engine. In other words, a gauge thjet reads 5PSI lower than actual on a 400cc motor might read 30PSI lower on a small displacement engine.
Althought it is often impossible to find someone with an identical no-brand quad, if you could find one you could compare settings and readings such as compression and carb adjustments. Also, swapping of parts is always an easy way to trouble shoot.
I had one of my kids quads (Honda TRX90) quit running and after months of trying this and that and then fully rebuilding the top end with no success, I had a friend look at it. He had it running in minutes. I had an identical quad and tried everything but I never swapped the carb. It turns out the kids had seen me adjust the idle screw to get one warmed up while I was getting the other quads going. (As dad and ride leader, I have to make sure everyone gets up and running) When they attempted to idle it down without me, they screwed the air screw (wrong screw) all they way in until it quit running. They never admitted doing it. After correcting this "minor" issue, the thing ran perfect. If I had tried swapping parts before jumping to conclusions, I would have saved myself a nice chunk of change! Sometimes the failures are simple.
Posted by: LT80
it's a 4 stroke?
Posted by: Harw
Try changing the spark plug first. Thoes little quads seem to go through a lot of them (CR6HSA) As far as your dealer problem goes that is normal for Kazuma most of them are just in for a fast buck and do not care after they sell it. Parts are very hard to get for them too.
They look like a Honda 50 motor but they are not.
Posted by: Dragginbutt
We would all hope that our dealers were good people, but unfortunately, when dealing with the container dealers who only have to have enough cash to buy a whole container full of crates to become a dealer, they are not always good people to deal with. And you don't find this out until after the sale. Parts are another issue that has been discussed in other threads... and one trait is common with these... you need to do a lot more work yourself on them... I know this sounds silly, but how old was the gas when you originally had a problem? Could you have gummed up the carb somehow? These little 50's really foul plugs at an alarming rate too. Even my son'e yamaha does this, and I have tried to adjust teh carb to no avail.
It sounds to me that a stuck valve sounds like a good candidate as someone has suggested. Sure hope you have good luck with it.
I know it is too late for you, but could you please update the rest of us, in case we have the same thing happen to us in the future?
Posted by: Dragginbutt
Well, I used to think the same way.. and will admit that the container units have earned their reputation, one disgruntled owner at a time... but they have been responsible for introducing a great number of new riders to our sport that would not necessarily have jumped in if they had to buy one of the big boys right off the bat.
I have stated before that I have always suspected this whole deal to be a way for the big boys to get someone hooked, knowing that they will get frustrated and move up to a more reliable machine... and the fact that in many ways, the cheap knockoffs are being made under license to the big boys sort of proves my point.. but I have to admit I love a conspiracy theory as much as the next guy.
The issue right here, right now is how to determine what is wrong, and how to get them back running again... without being judgmental.
I know this is stating the obvious.. but have you checked and confirmed the big three yet? Air, Fuel, and spark... Once you have that, you can go to things like compression etc... I will say though that if the battery is low, you might get a weak spark... but not one strong enough to fire up the mixture.... Just a thought.
Posted by: Dragginbutt
Thanks... I am in a holding pattern right now, and the Doctor hasn't decided when he should do the surgery.. so until then, I am back. I promise not to crack that whip too hard...
Posted by: spike99
Sounds like your mini is still under warranty (re: your last Christmas comment)? If it is, only fluid and minor tweaking changes can be done. Engine work, tranny work and some carb work could void the warranty. Some dealers purposely look for warranty void excuses. Hence, they charge the customer more for repairs.
If you mean "last Christmas as in 2003" then you unit probably isn't under warranty anymore. If so, then many specialized mini-quad, adult quad and/or small engine place could work on your Kazuma - assuming they can obtain parts directly from Kazuma Corp. The problem could range from "a stuck valve" to "complete engine rebuild". Without more details, it's hard to say what the cause of the problem could be. But I do know from reading other forums that Kazuma motors are "near Honda clones", but they do have many ring / piston and head problems. Perhaps that's why your current dealer is suggesting he needs to look at the rings & valves.
Regarding service.... I know what you mean!!! My original AC dealer sucked as well. A few times, they called me and left messages stating "my part" was in or my unit was ready for pick up. When I drove there, they couldn't find my part or their mechanic was still working on my unit. After the 4th BS incident from them, I swore I'd never go back to them. And to this day, I haven't. Too bad you don't have other Kazuma dealers in your area. If you did, you could never return to your current dealer as well.
Hope this helps - somehow....
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Posted by: asfasasu3
One thing you might try before tearing into the motor is check the valves. I don't have any clue about your motor, but I heard the commit of it being like a Honda. I take it, the cyclinder is not straight up and down? More angled towards the front? If so, alot of these "type" motors will run a good while and the vavles will tend to either burn into the seats or something to that effect. Next thing you know, the rocker arms will hold the valve open just enough to not let it run. (by loosing the compression) I don't know if it will help you any at all, but you might want to check/ adjust the valves before really tearing into it. (our old Yamaha Badger would do the same thing about once a year. 10 minutes to adjust the valves and it would be ready for another year.)
Posted by: quadduck
I know I'll get thrashed for this but you get what you pay for. Thats why for now I am sticking with the big boys.
Posted by: quadduck
Draggin I'm glad you have signed back on to keep me in check
Posted by: quadduck
What I should have said was take it to a good shop that isn't a dealer, they are usally smaller in size and want your buisness.
Posted by: WindmillAtWork
Cook4Andy you ever get it running?
Posted by: cook4andy
Need help please!
Last Christmas we bought our grandson a new 50cc Kazuma, when he went to ride it one day, it wouldn't start, we let is sit a while before taking it in for repair....
We are limited in Kazuma dealers in our area, there are only two and one is a couple hundred miles from us...
We took it in for repair to the one Kazuma dealer, nearest to us, it has been there at least six weeks already... He told us he would have it ready in a few days, it's been over a month, we just called him and he said he hasn't had a chance to look at it yet...
Is there any way my husband can fix this himself?......Like I said, one day, it just wouldn't start, the mechanic who looked at it, said there was "no compression".. My husband said it had compression before it broke down...The mechanic said he would check the rings, that it could be the valves as well....We're going to go pick it up but are at a loss at who to bring it to for repair, I was wondering if my husband could fix this himself?
Any information on getting this fixed would be deeply appreciated!!!!
Posted by: cook4andy
Thanks so much for the input Spike, much appreciated!
My husband called his friend who has a Harley and is used to working on bikes and has agreed to work on the Kazuma for our grandson.
Posted by: cook4andy
Thank you asfasasu3, that is exactly what my friend and husband plan to do first..."Great minds think alike"....lol ...
I appreciate you input as well!!!
Posted by: cook4andy
Yes, it's a 4 stroke.
Posted by: cook4andy
Thanks Harw! As far as the dealer problem, it turns out he was out for the buck!
My husband and our friend picked up the Kazuma today from the dealer, our friend tested it, no compression problem at all... The compression was fine... The first thing our friend is going to do, is change the spark plug and clean the carburetor....I'll let you know how it all turns out... Thanks for all the input, much appreciated!
