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Posted by: terd
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GROW UP! PIGS, GIVE ME A BREAK! Come on if there are laws that you don't like then try to change them, don,t wine and snivel that OFFICERS OF THE LAW ARE DOING THIER JOBS. It sounds like you guys tresspass quite often, are you getting permission to build trails on someone elses property, little let a lone even riding there legally in the fist place? Also you openly admit riding on the highway and trying to alude law enrorcement. Doing what you do is only making things worse, and is a BIG BLACK EYE to the rest of us who ride legally. Plus this was a thread for young kids riding to large of a machines so post your complaint somewhere else.
I'll second that, QUADDUCK!!!
What are they thinking. Got to be kids.
Posted by: Dragginbutt
Which only illustrates why we need to to police ourselves, or the large Uncle will do it for us.
Posted by: Dragginbutt
You will find it unfortunate, but I have come across state regulations that specifically state that the guidelines/laws concerning age versus engine size do NOT apply for sanctioned events (ie racing). So whether they were making a wise choice or not, he probably was legal as far as the letter of the law....
Posted by: Dragginbutt
I don't know the answer... education is paramount, but unfortunitely, you can't unscrew their heads and pour the knowledge in.. and even if you could, sounds like the common sense bulb is burned out. The reaction will probably be more of a "mind your own business" deal... Are you going to get through to them.. probably not. With time being a premium these days, I'd sugest concentrating your time and efforts on the ones that you can get to listen... even if that means it is only your own kids. Trying to explain to a 12 year old that you are doing something out of love just doesn't seem to sit well with them.. but in this case.. you have to be the parent. It is hard, I know... both for the parent, and the child... but it pays dividends in the end. Case in point.. my 23 year old son. He was a rebel in capital letters, refused to listen, always doing things to piss his mom and I off, a total hard case in school etc. His mom and I had to virtually drag him to scholl every day, and get his assignments from teh teachers, then begin the every evening family fight to get him to do his work etc. Finally, he graduated High school.. the only one of his friends that did.. it was like a light bulb was turned on... he broke off all contact with them... got a very high paying job (Thanks to dad), started wearing a CLEAN shirt and tie to work, bought his own house.. etc... You would think he was a model citizen... He came to us one day and thanked us for being there kicking him in the butt all those years...He now sees why we did.. because we cared. It would have been easy to turn a deaf ear to his BS... but we didn't.. and he grew out of it..
Although your kids may not agree with the limitations they have placed on them now, hopefully they will at least respect the decision. There are a lot of kids that would like to be in their shoes right now... even with the limits... they are lucky to have a parent that is involved with them. Many don't have that luxury.
Posted by: Dragginbutt
sounds like our friends to teh North have teh same issue we have in teh lower 48... inconsistant administration of many times non existing regulations. I think in many cases, and especially in the one you describe, these setbacks could be truned around.. but it takes time and involvement. Are you ready for that? Most are not. You need to go to the source and confront the people responsible. Not in a bad way, but at least let them know that there are two sides of the story. Obviously, some bad examples have led to the crack down... so it is important to let the leaders know that not all apples in the bag are bad... and that their actions are unfairly impacting the people who are acting in a responsible manner. If you can't take that step... then don't complain about being legislated out of existance.
Another person commented about setting up new trails, and having htem closed immediately. I have found that orgianised groups carry much more weight when trying to convince people to change the way the authorities are reacting. Joining or organizing a club, and then using the combined voice to negotiate "official" riding areas etc are the key here. One thing you absolutely must do is clean up the act of everyone involved. Acting in a responsible manner is what will get you results. Failure to do that will just result in more harrassment. Most importantly remember that change will not happen over night. It can take a single action by someone acting stupid to lose something, but it can take years to recover from it...
Posted by: Dragginbutt
The reason they don't go chasing after the bad guys is because in their eyes, everyone that rides is lumped into the same basket. Besides, you are a non threat to them... an easy mark. They know they can "catch" the legit riders... the ones that run from them and duck into the woods, will never get caught, but statistically speaking, the value of the fines and the number if citations justify their actions in the eyes of their superiors. I've seen this many times... and it isn't until the local business people start to feel the pinch economically when the riders no longer come around because of it, that they start complaining to local authorities and then something is done to call off the dogs.
All you have to do is show in terms of lost profits what they stand to lose... and you start getting their attention real quick... That usually relates to tax revenue, which provides for the salaries of the law enforcement in the first place....
It may be different up there in Canada.. but I doubt it....
Posted by: Dragginbutt
Yeah, it is funny you don't hear anyone crying about the trees or animal habitat that is destroyed when they cleared for their homes.. or their golf courses etc... but put a rut in the mud with an ATV, and "poof" you have a natural disaster that demands a response. Things are not much different in the US either.
I've seen race tracks in the US that have been operated for 59 years or more, and that were built miles from town get gobbled up with urban sprawl, and closed down because of the noise... Well duh! They knew the track was there when they built their homes... but still they complain, and in many cases win, because there is nobody standing up and defending the rights of the racers, or the trees...
Posted by: Dragginbutt
What you really need to do is get your civic leaders involved with riding ATV's.. .maybe through a club or something... then you might have one or two on your side for a change. You might also complain about stray golfballs, or the critters that now inhabit your property because they were displaced by the building of a golf course.. better yet, take pictures of the golf course where a golf cart makes a rut in the mud somewhere and use that every time they complain about teh damage you are doing to nature. You can also attack them for cutting down all the trees and damaging the natural habitat and see how they like it... turn around is fair play, and pay back is a Bi%$h....
Posted by: Dragginbutt
Whoa Nellie, this one took a bad turn... and I think I incited it... sorry for that.. it wasn't the intent... Now I am no tree hugger... and I have a certain amount of hostility towards developers who take away without giving back.. but I can't say that what they are doing is wrong. And I certainly do not fault any law enforcement officer for doing their duty either... although I may not always be on the right side of that one either... But you won't hear me complain about it...
I guess the years have taught me that there is a process... to get things changed, or to protect yourself.. and it takes education and action on a lot of peoples's parts to effect change... but it can be done. What I don't agree with, is inactive individuals who will not take time to try and work within the system to effect that change. Sure it takes time... anything worth doing does.... but if someone doesn't stand up and say something, then I guess there is no room for complaint then... Frustrating.. sure it is... Do I expect that I can make a difference.. probably not.. but I tried...
Here is an example... there have been many on these threads complaining about the guidelines that have been around for years and are in our opinion outdated. They are effecting the ability of our kids now to enjoy something that we did years ago in our younger days... and we don't like it.
I have heard numerous complaints... but when asked to sit down and put thoughts in writing... I got probably ten good suggestions, and a whole lot of complaints without workable solutions. Although the complaints outnumber the solutions 4 to one, I am still in there fighting... If nothing else, it has changed quite a few of my own perceptions and opinions on the whole deal... and it has opened a lot of doors to education possibilities that I can use to expand not only my knowledgebase, but my son's as well. So even though I did not get the results I was looking for, my journey of discovery has shown some positive results.
I also started a thread that suggested that we as adults take action to ensure kids have helmets... I even went as far as making an agreement with my local dealer to give a free helmet to a kid if they can't afford it, and I'll pay for it. So far in two years I have bought 4 helmets. But more importantly, in two of the clubs I belong to, they have established a lending closet of helmets, and now I am hearing from other clubs that they are doing the same thing with good results... And I have heard from at least one person who claims their free helmet saved their life... so was it worth it? Is one person able to effect change? You be the judge... But it takes action folks... don't complain if you can't take the step...
As for losing riding areas.. it is a sign of the times. They call it progress. From what I have seen lately, it appears to me that our sport is evolving... I see the future will consist of resort like environments being established, where people come to ride ATV's being very successful. Take a look at the Hatfield McCoy trail system in West Virginia for example... or the Paiute trail system in Utah, or the Silver country in Idaho... all are examples where people like you and me started with an idea, shared that dream with others.. worked with the authorities to negotiate land use permits, establish special ordinances that are ATV friendly etc... and it took years to negotiate it all.. but look at what they have accomplished... The economic impact in West Virginia has been in the hundreds of millions of dollars that the area would not have had if it were not for the hard work of a few individuals.
It could all be repeated.. but it takes YOU to get up and take action....
Posted by: Dragginbutt
Thanks for the encouragement guys.. I don't know if it is the ornery part of me, or the stubborn part...that keeps me fighting... I'll leave that up to my wife to decide... but all it takes is a word of encouragement once in a while to keep me going. Maybe it is because I live and work in DC, and see how the work of just a few individuals CAN make a difference.
I can't really comment on the Canada deal other than ask one simple question... are the local authorities elected officials? It seems to me that is a starting point. Nothing like the threat of getting thrown out on your ear gets a person's attention any quicker. Especially if you join your voice to a group of like minded individuals... Ever try a petition with signatures of other riders in that area? It may also mean you need to try and effect positive changes in their perception of ATV enthusiasts to let them know that they can't all be lumped into one category... In Wisconsin, I met a man who was what they call a trail ambassador... he was out on the trails every day handing out safety brochures, and basically out there educating the riders and the locals on responsble riding, and the benefits that the local area was receiving. A pretty neat concept if you ask me.
The state had recognised their value and is now funding the program... Some call that self policing.. I call it survival... But there again, it comes down to people getting involved and working with the authorities, instead of looking at them as the enemy. You got to ask yourself what is the reason you ride in the first place... I think a lot of us would say that for a brief moment, we get to forget our problems and just enjoy life.... the last thing we need is to expose ourselves to another conflict....so don't take the existance of law enforcement on the trails as another way of fueling the fires... from my perspective, if it means they are keeping the speeds down and making it safer for the majority of riders, including my children and grandchildren who are putting along the same trails, then I welcome them.
Posted by: NLWarrior01
I made a post on here about a week ago about a little kid riding on a banshee unsupervised . thread was "how old for a banshee" .. the kid could barely reach the clutch on this thing ...
Makes me shake my head and wonder what idiots some parents are ...
Posted by: NLWarrior01
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Originally posted by: confusedbuyer
lord-tunderin-jeezes there by, how are tings on da rock? is it winter yet. you can have the last laugh, cuz we're into a week of rain, maybe to be followed by another.
yep, the parents can be pretty stunned. they don't think about the weight of a big quad squishing a kid. 2 different atv accidents in Alberta last week, both fatals. a 13 y/o girl doubling her friend hit a tractor. the other one was a guy tryin to cross water and got swept away in the current and drowned. last time i heard a story like that, it was ice flow jumpin in Newfoundland. you probably have lotsa scary stories about stuff like that huh?
First off, coodo's on the excellent dialect!! Are you a displaced Newfie?
Nope, not winter .. yet. We actually have been getting a few decent winter's for a change this past couple of years, so I ain't complainin .. as for the rain, if you don't want it send it down here because we need it badly. Reservoirs are approaching 10' below normal limits .. it's been a really really dry summer.
Yeah, those poor kids down in Pouch Cove .. three of them I believe wasn't it?
Posted by: 03250bayou
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Originally posted by: confusedbuyer
we went on a ride this weekend. saw a kid around 8-9 y/o riding a 400 Kodiak Special Edition, with some type of seroiusly aggresive mud treads. It appeared to be his atv as i watched him and dad unload, and my 9 y/o son's jaw dropped and the bottom lip was quivering... " why can't I ride one of those?" Then kid brags about his riding through mud bog that no adults got through, making my son greener.
Then it struck me how not only dad was setting bad example, his son was setting an even worse example to all other kids around his age.
we were in a dry, loose dirt/gravel area. Mud tires don't perform aswell on that stuff. I just thought it was an accident waiting to happen. I see we're closer to ride regulations than we realize here. One only needs to read these forums to see what's happening everywhere else, and know it's "Coming soon to a town near you".
that kid will stop braggin when he trys gettin through some mud that turns out to be 3 foot deep...as he trys to get off and walk to the side it goes up over his head...hm...yeah i agree with the getting thrown around part too...im 14 and 150 lbs...i get thrown around when i go over bumpys areas too fast...i guess the video clip shows what happens to a 80lbs 9 year old who does it
Posted by: 03250bayou
hm..i just read the last posts...snappy...i've heard in quebec the people are very friendly about atving...does quebec have different laws about them?...because they are kinda seperate from the rest of canada right?
Posted by: snappynuts
consider yourselves lucky. I'm in Nova Scotia, Canada and the entire sport is regualted. You aren't allowed to cross roads, you have to get off your bike and WALK it across!! You cannot park on a road, even if your out in front of your house. The police are allowed to come on your property and give you a fine if you don't ahve a helmet on. All bikes must be insured and registered which costs about $300 a year. You have to have written permission to ride on private land, even if you already have been given verbal OK. The cops sit in the woods with radar guns to get people speeding. This isn't a bad idea except there aren't any speed limits, so they pretty much can give you a fine if they "feel" you are driving to fast. All our old trails have been blocked off with large granite boulders because the rich people in the area don't like the noise, so we are now limited to where we can go. New trails are blocked off within days of being made. The government has "regualted" trails that we are allowed to ride on, but you cannot drive over 20km/r which is about as fast as I can run!! These regulated trails are also just dirt roads, no mudd, rocks, hills.......bogs, whatever. We aren't allowed to drive through rivers or streams or mud bogs because we will get fined for environmental damage. Whenever there is a rally, the police are there, checking registrations and giving out fines. It pretty much sucks........ If you are caught in the woods or at a beach on your bike off the regualted trails, they come and take the bike away and you get a big fine, plus you have to pay to get your bike out of impound.
Never come here to enjoy ATV riding, EVER!!!
Posted by: snappynuts
yeah man, it friggin rots so bad, it wasn't like that a year ago, this just all started. I have gotten a fine for no registration, $160. And constantly harrased by the local police, which don't even know how to drive thier bikes and cause more harm than good, its pathetic. They are just bored and the only thing to keep them busy where the detatchment is, pretty much harrasing 4 wheelers
Posted by: snappynuts
Quebec is a lot bigger province, they have a lot more area to go bikin, and harder to regulate. They aren't seperate from Canada, although a lot of them wish they were. Quebec is mosty french and they feel that they are better than the rest of canada, and want to seperate and become their own country......... which is the stpidest thing I've ever heard. Its like Texas trying to seperate from the US because they have a southern accent. I have heard they are easier on bikers though.
Posted by: snappynuts
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Tabernacle, hosti, chalice! hey , the only way we can swear on these forums is in french! well put, but you forgot to mention they suck the rest of the country dry financially, and always want more, and never get enough.
hahaha nice nice. Yeah I agree on that one too. Not all are like that, but a lot are. If you speak english in Quebec City, you are the devil.
Posted by: snappynuts
hahahaha thats awesome, I'm not surprised what so ever!! They probably did that on purpose!
Posted by: snappynuts
Oh I agree completely. The ATV clubs in my area are almost scared of the cops, and the rich yuppies that are the main implementers of these regulations. It does only take a few people to ruin it for everyone else, granted. Putting fines and registration costs up is definitly a means of a "quick cash grab" by our poor, twisted Nova Scotia government, and NOT a means of "Safety Enforcement". Money should be put into education and rider awareness about the actual rules, not into paying some excavation company $300 an hour to put one ton boulders into a path just because residents don't like the noise during thier Sunday dinner hour. It took the legislation 6 months to put rules into effect, and another month to start dishing out insane fines to the legit rider......... it will take years and years for the cops to actually regualte the "bad apples" out there that are ruining it.
I have had police admit that to me. I've been pulled over and harrased for 45 minutes on my bike just because I was parked at a gas station, just off a main "government regulated" trail. The cop admitted to me that it only takes a few bad kids to ruin it for everyone..... my thoughts are at this time "why the hell don't you get in your cop mobile and find these punks rather than spending 45 minutes harrasing ME when I havn't done anything wrong!!!!!!!!!!!!" The police also justify the stiff fines by saying "if you can afford a bike like that, you can afford the fines that we hand out! I think not, I pay for my bike monthly and there is no way I can afford anything but those monthy payments..... plus the damage I've done to the bike since I've gotten it.
Posted by: snappynuts
yeah exactly..... but this also translates into where we are riding, which is very close to a new Golf Course bordered by a very wealthy new neighbourhood. These people pay a lot more tax and they feel that if they have to pay such high taxes, they should have a lot more control of what goes on in the area. Since their tax paying translates into cops salary.... the police feel that these wealthy people's complaints should be honoured before anyone elses. Recently, one of these new residents posted a complaint to the government saying 4 wheeling is out of control in the area. The funny part is ATV usage in the area is the same as it was 20 years ago and we are riding the exact same trails. This person has a picture of a bog in the area that we have to cross and naturally in the wet spring this bog is a mess. It dries up in the summer, then you wouldn't know there was a bog there. This picture "sparked" outrage in the environmental community.... in the mean time 1000 yads away form our trail, the entire forest is being mowed down by logging. This is just a hate on for ATVs
Posted by: snappynuts
yeah you're right..... all I want to do is enjoy my $6500 toy I bought, but people just don't wan tthis to happen and its really getting to me.
Posted by: snappynuts
i hear that....
Posted by: snappynuts
Yeah man, see in Hammond's Plains and Tantallon, they are in the woods on bikes, the cops that is, and they will give you a ticket if they "think" you are going to fast. Half of them can't even drive the bikes properly. They are the unsafe ones. When I got pulled over one time, I was almost hit by one officer and another fell off his bike! The cops were driving their bikes right up busy paved roads to get other ATV's that were just crossing the road. They would make the riders WALK thier bikes accross the busy roads, while the police would DRIVE theirs away back up the road. They think they are so damn smart and full of ego with that uniform, but they don't realize how hypocritical they act and how stupid they look breaking the laws that they have sword to uphold..... They should be giving themselves a ticket!
Posted by: snappynuts
So the cops are allowed to ride on the tracks but we can't. I wouldn't even ride on them anyway, its very unsafe. The law pretty much makes it illegal to drive a 4 wheeler anywhere but your own yard or property. It sucks. No other province is like that. In Ontario they are passing a law that allows ATV riders to drive on the roads in Subdivisions for small spurts to get to trails. I think that is fair, but around here in Nova Scotia they would rather make that illegal so they can get some revenue from the fine the crazy police are told to dish out! It sucks
Posted by: snappynuts
ok listen guys, I'm not a kid, and I have no disrespect towards law enforecement. I have a few friends on the force myself. I never once mentioned the term "pig" in any thread. All I'm trying to say is where I come from and where I ride, there never used to be a problem, the cops didn't say boo to us riders what so ever......... that is until a multi million dollar golf course was constructed in the area and all the rich yuppies moved in. Once this happened, all of a sudden there is a huge legislation on ATV use. This is to the point where its not fun to take a nice sunday afternoon and go for a ride without being stopped for a half hour while the cops make sure yuo are "legal". What my fellow ridin buddies and I used to do for years is all of a sudden illegal........ and no one was ever told us about the "changes"...... The way we are finding out about all these new laws is with stiff fines from the boys in blue. Its pretty unfair considering that what the police used to say nothing about... you now get a $400 fine for, out of nowhere!!! There was no announcement that the laws had changed, OR that they are going to be enforced ZERO tolerance... you just get a big fine! My arguements are perfectly just, and whats takes the government one meeting to pass legislation, takes years for the ATV clubs to protest and get dropped. To a lot of us it is to much work, to much of our free time fighting the system. Quadduck, you are in law enforecement and therefor you MUST see my side of the storey. I have NEVER broken any laws pertaining to the laws I was informed about over the years, but when these laws change overnight, with no notification, ofcourse I'm going to be a bit bitter. I was almost arrested and had my bike impounded because I asked one cop a simple question about why we ATV riders havn't been informed about the law change, and why we are given such a hard time these days. I was also parked in my good friend's driveway at the time!!! I don't know what neck of the woods you police, but I'm sure that if someone asked you why, all of a sudden, you can't pull up to a gas station just off a crown land trail.. you would tell them why they can't drive the ATV up to the pumps..... rather than taking it as an ego/disrespect for the law shot and flip out, threatening and yelling to take the ATV away an get a $250 fine!!! Like I said, there are kids out there that ruin it for a lot.... but the cops should be smart enough to distinguish between the bad guys and the good guys. I'm not a kid, I don't run from the cops, and I don't break the laws that I know of but I get treated that way.......... and your threads just proved my point EXACTLY... thanks for making me look good..... officer
Posted by: snappynuts
Yes, the laws up here are a little strict pertaining to the vehical act in general, not just ATVs. Our provincial government is rather poor, and "needs the money". Law enforcement have a zero tolerance attitude here, which translates into no warnings, just tickets....... even when you don't even know the laws because its so difficult to find out. I have written the court asking for a copy of even just the ATV laws, and I havn't received anything as of yet. Emails go un answered........ to me and everyone else, it looks like they don't want you to know, or don't care if you do or don't, just as long as there is enough money to pay the salaries. I found the neighbouring provinces ATV act in 10 minutes on the internet. Ours, no where to be found. We just have it bad up here, its as simple, yet at the same time as difficult as that! Come on up sometime.... you'll see
Posted by: DC504
when i took the training class so i could get my atv license (since im under 16) there was a dad with a 7/8 year old ON A SPORTSMAN 500. the instructors actually let this kid take the class on the 500. the dads excuse was "its all i got". the kid could hardly control the thing his feet barely reached the footpegs. every bump he hit nearly bounced him off the seat. i thought this was just plain stupid. regardless of how skilled that kid might be (and he didnt look very much to me) that quad was simply too big for him. and it was the dads problem for lettin him ride it. these are the people that ruin the sport for us the people with total disrespect for the rules.
Posted by: racedad26
Went to my local drags twice in the last week and some egomaniac who was there let his son[10 or 11] race a new 450 I think it was a yzf, and I was blown away. Not only was it just plum crazy but even the people who put it on[the drags] did not say a thing. My son looked at me and said "he is to little for that dad" Once again I explained to my son what the deal was with small kids riding big quads and he is cool with it. We can only hope the kid doesnt get hurt and the parent reaches into his pants and finds his brain.
Posted by: hondabuster
Im not defending the behavior you saw...but i feel the need to present some info from the other side.
In MN, if your 12 year old takes a state approved rider class, and they wear a helmit and ride single, and are with mom or dad( on another quad), its legal. My 12 year old daughter, is small and could pass for a 10 year old, but shes almost 13. Ive shown her the right way, to be responsible, and that she is never alowed to drive alone, and to stay where she belongs...on the trail. We go during the week, so we have the trails to ourselves, and dont have to dodge the sportys. She has a good head on her shoulders, and makes some surprisingly good judgements while riding. She drives a kodiak 450, and can reach both brakes, and knows how to use them. she knows how the gps works and can use it to navigate. Ive imposed a 20 mph speed limit for now, and when she has more experience, itll get higher. I would rather have her out there driving than some of the 20 somethings Ive seen ride.
There are plenty of dangerous activities out there, but most important is parent involvement, supervision and education.And making good decisions, regarding risk vs reward.
It all starts and ends with in our own families, we have to be responsible for our own children.
Ive tried talking to some of the parents, of the bad behaving kids on quads( if and when I can locate them). But, Ill be honest with you, some people can be very scarey, who knows what the he11 they are thinking. Ive pretty much given up on talking about serious things, with strangers.
For the most part, im in agreement with confusedbuyer and Dragginbutt, however, as long as its legal for my daughter to ride,with all the restrictions, were doing it.
Dragginbutt, you did the right thing with your boy..that was me 30 years ago, and thats what my old man did for me, and ive thanked him many times for doing it.
Posted by: confusedbuyer
we went on a ride this weekend. saw a kid around 8-9 y/o riding a 400 Kodiak Special Edition, with some type of seroiusly aggresive mud treads. It appeared to be his atv as i watched him and dad unload, and my 9 y/o son's jaw dropped and the bottom lip was quivering... " why can't I ride one of those?" Then kid brags about his riding through mud bog that no adults got through, making my son greener.
Then it struck me how not only dad was setting bad example, his son was setting an even worse example to all other kids around his age.
we were in a dry, loose dirt/gravel area. Mud tires don't perform aswell on that stuff. I just thought it was an accident waiting to happen. I see we're closer to ride regulations than we realize here. One only needs to read these forums to see what's happening everywhere else, and know it's "Coming soon to a town near you".
Posted by: confusedbuyer
I explain and my son "listens", but I'm not sure he believes or agrees with me, especially when he turns around and some other kid is doing it. Then we talk about ..'you wouldn't jump off the bridge if he was'..., but what he's observing is just a bad example. And the young rider walks around bragging to the other kids and pretty much rubbing their faces in it. I wish I could find that video clip I saw about 2-4 weeks ago of the kid on the adult size quad that rides through a mildly bumpy area, loses control and then gets launched. If a picture is worth a thousand words, then a vidoe clip must be worth a novel.
Draggin, what do you do to police someone like this? In their mind, our kids just aren't as skilled as their little Johnny, who dad figures is in the early stages of a pro career. we're just being paranoid, and his kid is fine cuz he's ridden Kodiak 100's of times. In this case, I think it was the son's quad, cuz it was only him and dad. And this is Canada, so we're not allowed to shoot 'em!
Posted by: confusedbuyer
wow man, that totally sucks!! you have an NDP gov't? I wouldn't own an atv under those circumstances. move out to BC, no regs whatsoever, and tons of great riding areas. only problem is BC means 'bring cash'. cost of living out here is pretty high, especially houses. talk about killing an industry. I wouldn't want to be an atv dealer out there.
Posted by: confusedbuyer
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Originally posted by: snappynuts
Quebec is a lot bigger province, they have a lot more area to go bikin, and harder to regulate. They aren't seperate from Canada, although a lot of them wish they were. Quebec is mosty french and they feel that they are better than the rest of canada, and want to seperate and become their own country......... which is the stpidest thing I've ever heard. Its like Texas trying to seperate from the US because they have a southern accent. I have heard they are easier on bikers though.
Tabernacle, hosti, chalice! hey , the only way we can swear on these forums is in french! well put, but you forgot to mention they suck the rest of the country dry financially, and always want more, and never get enough.
Posted by: confusedbuyer
lord-tunderin-jeezes there by, how are tings on da rock? is it winter yet. you can have the last laugh, cuz we're into a week of rain, maybe to be followed by another.
yep, the parents can be pretty stunned. they don't think about the weight of a big quad squishing a kid. 2 different atv accidents in Alberta last week, both fatals. a 13 y/o girl doubling her friend hit a tractor. the other one was a guy tryin to cross water and got swept away in the current and drowned. last time i heard a story like that, it was ice flow jumpin in Newfoundland. you probably have lotsa scary stories about stuff like that huh?
Posted by: confusedbuyer
did you know you can restrict throttle on the 450? yes you can, just turn in screw on handlebar by thumb throttle.
my 9 y/o CAN ride my 450 fine, but it's a weight and power concern. and it does get other kids saying, "aaawww, no fair, why can't I.." I guess that's a problem for the parents to deal with, like "Johnny, I don't trust you, you're too much of an orangatan". and then there's the whole bad publicity thing. I'd blame myself forever if something happened to my son while riding an oversize machine. why not a mid-size like a Breeze, or LT160? Lots lighter, and still lots of speed and power.
NL Warrior, not a former kitchen-partier, sorry, wish I was cuz I got many buds from the rock, and they're ALL great people. I always say, never met a Newf i didn't like (except that POS Shannon Murrin, but i never actually met him, just followed his murder trial. you guys should do society a favor and send him off into an ice-flow).
snappy, a friend of mine was in Q-city when he was the Mayor of a local Vancouver suburb. They tried to communicate they wanted fruit for breakfast, and they brought them french-fries (french for fries is "frit"). How stupid! they just didn't want to help. but I understand if ya make an effort to speak da lingo, they're a little more helpful. Hey, gotta love those Colorado Avalanche leaving Quebec City and winning the Stanley Cup the next year!! Man, I'd be bitter if theCanucks did that. well... bitter-sweet!
Posted by: confusedbuyer
Quote
Originally posted by: quadduck
Showing the skill to handle and having the intellect to handle are two very differnt swords. Thats all I was trying to point out. Kids definitly want to do what they see other kids doing. This thread has started an argument between my wife and me. I showed her this thread and she took it even further to asking me how I came to the conclusion that my 7+8 year olds were ready to ride 80's. She doesn.t see much difference between what we do and what the other parents mentioned in this thread. Of course she isn't exactly what you would call an ATV enthusiast either. I just wish there was a true test to when a child or even an adult is ready to ride any atv, and I am not talking about more regulations.
Oops, guess that's my fault img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif" border="0"> . I think an 80 is fine cuz it's DESIGNED for kids. you can limit speed and power. IF there is an accident, it's all relative to MASS and PHYSICS. They're on a lighter machine so they won't get as hurt as being on a Sportsman 500. Also, the ergonomics of how they sit in the seat, hold the handlebars etc.., is realtive. on the 80 they're in a seated posititon, on a 500 they're standing up, and I totally agree DC504, that when they hit any bump they are more prone to get bucked.
I think life is too short to worry about every conceivable way you can get hurt. It also completely destroys any chance at self-confidence cuz the first instinct you end up with from worrying all the time is, " I could get hurt", and then you almost sub-conciously find a way to do it. quadduck, get your wife on an atv. and show her this post.
the "true test" is your judgement as a parent, ability to recognize when they're ready for the next step, and rigid guidance. there is no hard and fast rule. sounds like you're already doing a great job.
Posted by: rescuediver
Snappynuts, When I read your posts, you make it seem like you are riding to the gas station on roadway that are not open to atvs. Now, Myself and Quadduck could be wrong on our assumption. I hate "assuming" because it only does two things. Make an #$% out of you and me. Now, I don't know how your laws are enacted in the great north. But, down here in the Good Ol' USofA. They have hearings that need to be open to the public. So, they are posted and there is a period in a open public forum for our imput. Down here, it does seem like things happen over night, but in reality, it doesn't. As far as you riding there for years. Well, that might be the case. But, it doesn't seem you own the property, therefore, you are trespassing unless, of course it is public property. Now, down here, for us to cite you, it needs to be posted or you have to be told to leave. Of course, if you are continually told to leave the property, you know that being on it, is illegal and therefore you know from past experiences. Now, as far as the cops doing their job, they are. I'm sure there are different divisions within the department, doing everything that you said they should be doing. It's just to sad, your legislators listened to the yuppies in your area and passed a law that pertains to your favorite riding area. Talk to your representative and see if they will entertain a middle ground? I doubt it, but try.
Also, I know when things like subdivisions, shopping centers and golf courses are built an environmental impact report needs to be done and open for public review. So, depending on what it says, I don't think the issue of gold carts making mud holes will work, unlike the argument of atvs creating mud bogs on adjoining property. These always seem to bite us in the rearendBR>
After reading this thread, the US of A doesn't look all that bad
Posted by: rescuediver
Dragginbutt, I commend you on your hard workYou've done some great things. You are correct in your analogy of what's going on and one of the ways it can be changed. But, the realization is, people find it easier to complain, then to work in a positive manner to make a difference. I created a saying in an organization I was president of "Be part of the solution, not part of the problem". Keep up the good work. But a word of warning, don't get burned out trying to get your message across. A lot of deaf ears on this subject
Posted by: AlaskaBoy
confused,
I saw a boy about that age and his sister also around the same age riding double on a brand new Sportsman 500 back in may and my boy pointed out to me that they were too small for that machine.
Up here it is the norm for kids riding an adult size of a machine but it does not make it right though. I had just got done reading the article in Reader's Digest about the parents who let their son ride a fullsize quad and it roled over a killed him( I think this is the same story that was on the news a couple of months ago) and they were all shocked over how he got killed. When you let them on a adult size machine and let them go off to do as they please is border line to child abuse if you ask me. I know some kids mature and grow faster then others but there are alot of progression machines out there for the kids to ride.
My little guy has mastered( so he tells me) his machine but my wife and I are going to have him ride it for another season before we get the next size up, probaly around 80 to 90cc's. I want him to learn everything that there is to know about trail riding and etiquete(sp).
AlaskaBoy.
Posted by: quadduck
Last weekend I saw Kids on bansheeeeeeeees at sand lake oregon. Not stock ones but pumped up ones. The little ones were 10 and 11, and as I was talking to them I was impressed at first but then I realized that even though they physically could handle the bikes they really weren't mature enough to make the right choices while riding. They also had no parental or legal gaurdians there with them, they were out there with there 15 year old brother on his pumped sheeee. Can you imagine taking a casual ride through the dunes with your family and having one or even maybe all of those kids running into you at a high speed? Would they make the right and mature choice to avoid hitting you or your family? These are definitly reasons for regs even though I hate to admit reg'n anything that we should be able to do ourselves. My kids are small for there ages 7+8 but they both ride lt80s but only after they mastered there 50 and showed an accetable level of there maturity for there ages. Am I going out of the guidlines,yes, but at a much more reasonable step, my kids ARE ALWAYS SUPERVISED. One last thing the kids that were at the dunes were wearing athletic shoes shorts t-shirts and NO HELMETS, but they did wear goggles. LOL Guess we should give the parents a medal for providing at least one piece of the equipment.
Posted by: quadduck
Showing the skill to handle and having the intellect to handle are two very differnt swords. Thats all I was trying to point out. Kids definitly want to do what they see other kids doing. This thread has started an argument between my wife and me. I showed her this thread and she took it even further to asking me how I came to the conclusion that my 7+8 year olds were ready to ride 80's. She doesn.t see much difference between what we do and what the other parents mentioned in this thread. Of course she isn't exactly what you would call an ATV enthusiast either. I just wish there was a true test to when a child or even an adult is ready to ride any atv, and I am not talking about more regulations.
Posted by: quadduck
Hey confused she has rode before and doesn't really care for it. If you can covince her to go I already have my eiger she could ride, but pigs would probably fly first. back to what I wrote earlier about some sort of test, your right, I was thinking more for those parents that aren't making wise decisons on thier own.
Posted by: quadduck
GROW UP! PIGS, GIVE ME A BREAK! Come on if there are laws that you don't like then try to change them, don,t wine and snivel that OFFICERS OF THE LAW ARE DOING THIER JOBS. It sounds like you guys tresspass quite often, are you getting permission to build trails on someone elses property, little let a lone even riding there legally in the fist place? Also you openly admit riding on the highway and trying to alude law enrorcement. Doing what you do is only making things worse, and is a BIG BLACK EYE to the rest of us who ride legally. Plus this was a thread for young kids riding to large of a machines so post your complaint somewhere else.
Posted by: quadduck
I try not to get up on a soap box too often but I am in law enforcement and easily take offense to those who are ignorant.
Posted by: quadduck
Dragginbutt you are right and I have tryed recently to organize my group and all they want is to enjoy the fruits of someone elses labor. This won't stop me though, I am going to keep trying.
Posted by: polarisinthemud
i hear ya on that one brother, down here in yarmouth its hell those pigs got nothing better to do besides herass ya. IF you get caught on a road yes even a old back dirt road its a 250$ fine plus 6month impound of yer bike.Its just so crazy you make yer own rules. You better have a race bike to get away from em because they'll stop you everytime they see you..You cant be no little girl u gottar run like a mofo even if involves 2miles of road to find a good escape place..
Posted by: polarisinthemud
in yarmouth here they got cops on polaris 700efi on the train tracks...they'll stop ya for registration, crossing the roads, anything, and theres about 50 roads from one end of yarmouth to the other you have to cross, who actualkly pushes there bike across the road? If you can go faster then a cop, thats all that matters, they'll be upside down in a 5 foot swamp off the trail somehweres...............
Posted by: polarisinthemud
YEa i guess the pigs need so many stops or something for there record its hard to explain someone explained it to me but thats y there doin all this dum shiz..
They should do something usefull like bust some crackhouses or solve some murders instead of bugging some people just trying to have some fun...
yea man we got a report of a green 4wheeler crossing the road at a 70degree angle we better go check it out b4 someone gets hurt.
