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Posted by: WhoDatInDaMud
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Originally posted by: Likes2Ride
Hi guys,My son just turned 6 and has been riding a Predator 50 well. I want to give the Predator to my 5 year old daughter....
Its a tough decision to move someone that young up to a machine that can do what - 30+ mph? Things can happen pretty fast.
Not knowing your location - be advised that some state laws are being changed restricting anyone under age 6 having access to any size ATV. Even on private property. Over 50cc is being limited to 12-15 year olds riding 90cc with some exceptions in some states for having a safety certificate. If not familiar - check your state regulations to avoid problems and again - the rules are being changed a lot.
Here in Minnesota - giving to young of a kid to large of a ATV can cost you your drivers license, having the quad taken away, fines and if injury is involved - child endangerrment charges. The foolish actions of a few parents have really created a mess. The home video of 4 eight year olds riding 500 cc quads through a mud hole is frequently on the TV just before the legislative session. Thats really really bad for the sport.
Posted by: WhoDatInDaMud
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Originally posted by: Dragginbutt
I guess we should stop focusing on the guidelines, and ask the question why are ATV's being singled out in the first place. A kid under 12 can race gocarts, quarter midgets, MX dirt bikes, personal watercraft all without any restrictions... why then are we being subjected to such scrutiny? The guidelines were writen because of safety issues with 3 wheeled ATV's... today's machines are not even close to being in the same death trap category... Bicycles are more dangerous and cause more injuries and deaths, but you don't see them being limited in their usage.... I don't get it... maybe a class action suit needs to be introduced...
According to the reporting system in place at hospitals there really is a problem with a significant increase in ATV accidents. This injury factor then prompted the Consumer Product Safety Commission (who banned the 3 wheelers years ago) into having hearings to examine what were the attributing factors in the incidents being reported.
The CPSC found a disportional increase in injurys and that more people were being more seriously injured then 20 years ago (taking note of number of users - the injury rates were way higher) It was determined that the largest at-risk group was 15-19 year olds but right behind that was the under 12 year old group. The leading contributing factor for under age 16 injuries are riders on over sized quads - using the historical recommendations as guidelines to determine what was oversized. The increase in ATV weight and performance was recognized as the attributing factor in why the increase in fatality and more serious injury.
Over the years - many states have adopted the the CPSC age/size guidelines as state law. Some states allow exceptions from these restrictions after a youth recieves a ATV safety certificate.
Bicycles are not on the radar scope becuase they do not cause the enviromental damage, make noise, smell, and are not as envyable as some dirty muddy rich kid tearing up mother earths carpet of pussywillows that the bunny hugger whackos have made so much political noise about.
And because every kid rides a bike - I bet the fatality rate per number of users is lower than the power toy rate. Its that kind of number that puts it in the 10pm news.
Yes the numbers need overhaul - but when it gets overhauled - I'm afraid that in todays world - you may be required to have a drivers license when its all over and done. That is what I hear being bantered about in the committee rooms. Honestly - I don't recall anyone offering anything else.
WASHINGTON D.C. - The U.S. Consumer Product Safety Commission says that 35 witnesses have registered to testify about all-terrain vehicle (ATV) safety at the commission's regional public hearing to be held in Morgantown, W.Va., on June 5, 2003. Estimated ATV-related injuries in the U.S. have doubled in a recent 5-year period and deaths also continue to climb.
ATV injuries requiring an emergency room visit increased by 104 percent from an estimated 54,700 in 1997 to 111,700 in 2001. In 2001, about a third of these victims were under 16 years old. In this same period the estimated number of ATV drivers increased 36 percent, driving hours grew 50 percent and the number of ATVs increased 40 percent, according to a recent commission analysis.
Posted by: WhoDatInDaMud
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Originally posted by: Raptorlegs
WhoDat, I'm curious. In your safety course, I'm sure you give advice on how to avoid accidents. But, do you teach people how to wreck? I know that sounds funny, but what I mean is do you teach people things like how and why to throw themselves uphill and away from a potential roll? That priority one when you lose control is to get off and as far away from the vehicle as you can?
Rap -
Short answer - Yes.
There are several parts to that answer. The computer based study CD includes written explanation and pictures and arrows (I hear Alice's Restaurant playing in my head) and there is a classroom demonstration by instructors on proper leaning and up hill egress, also there is a demonstrated ability segment to the testing program where candidates ride their quads over obstacles. Traversing a slope is the number one difficult maneuver and we have learned that this is our greatest teaching opportunity as most are not leaning correctly or understand which way is up hill. I sometimes use a couple helpers and balance the quad on two wheels to demonstrate how much more safely you can traverse a hill if you get your up-hill cheek off the seat vs. leaning with you shoulders and head.
As someone who continues to suffer from a broken collar bone I never forget to advise escaping cleanly from a bad situation and point out that they can select any 4 of the instructors to stand on their chests if they wish to know what it feels like to have the machine on top of them.
Posted by: WhoDatInDaMud
TNT -
The reason CPSC got involved is that there is a 50% increase in the number of quads ( over some time period ending in 2003 I beleive ) but a 100% increase in injuries (same time period). One would expect a 50% increase in injury rate if there are 50% more quads - but not 100%. Therego the disproportional increase.
Posted by: WhoDatInDaMud
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Originally posted by: Dragginbutt
Yes the numbers are up.. but I suspect many factors come in to play... .... That makes a heck of a lot more sense than keeping all kids under 16 from riding and having a license to ride... Maybe you could suggest that in the next meeting of the minds.
Gary
I would suggest you print out the several hundred posts on this topic, paste together the ideas, programs and suggestions you find in them and go bend the ear of your states law makers until one of more show some interest in supporting a bill that changes the laws in your state.
You might find support in your local or regional ATV clubs. Here in Minnesota we have ATVAM - All Terrain Vehicle Associaton of Minnesota. Checkout http://atvam.org as a example of a regional ATV organization. If you dont' have a regional organization to umbrella all the clubs in your state - start one! We have a paid lobbyist whos time is spent identifying Anti-ATV legislation buried in other legislation and also promotes positive legislation. This year ATV'rs won a major battle in rewording a previous law that banned ATV's in "marshy areas" even on private property. This change was due to the efforts of ATVAM and its members supporting our legislative lobbyist so while we worked at our day jobs - he explained to law makers one by one the error of the previous law that was passed. Well - we won. Can't argue with success. Our youth training program was also part of the ATVAM efforts at the law maker level.
I see we have trained 1800 youth in the program in the last year and have over 400 instructors certified by the DNR. Your state can do the exact same thing and your clubs can hold states like this one out as examples of being proactive on the issues.
You may not find much interest in changeing the laws for under 12 year old youth. The research studies, accident reports and history do not support putting 11 year olds on motor toys. That would be a tough nut to crack. But if you want to tackle it - good luck.
My personal opinion seems to be more of moving target on the subject. Yes some kids are likely developed enough to ride at 10. But how do we determine that? Let the parents decide? Ya - right. Thats worked out so well so far. Test them? Well, if 9 out of 100 are developed enough - you tell the other 91 they don't pass and to put their quads back on the trailer and go home. I've already had my tires slashed, harrasing phone calls, been called things that I thought were impossible and other general bad behavior. I won't volunteer for that test. You'll have "almost 10 year olds" showing up, falsified birth certificates and fathers who have drank more fluid then they have bathed in screaming in your face that 10 is unfair and there shouldnt be any age limit and F you and F this program and F the state and anybody who says they can't do what ever the F they want to do. Thanks - but I'll pass.
The point is - at 12, even the kids start to think a little more maturely and maybe this isn't all that bad and if dad starts acting out - well, thats bad on dads part and don't screw up my safety certificate.
Just an observation.
Posted by: WhoDatInDaMud
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Originally posted by: Dragginbutt
... we either have to change our plans or not go altogether since it is not fair for him to have to sit on the sidelines. Probably playing his gameboy or something. We talk about keeping our kids active, but things like this make it hard. ....
There is a solution -
I bought a couple of two-up ATV's so underaged, inexperienced or good looking back rests (lol) can ride with.
Everyone loves it.
This works really really well. And I actually prefer the new quads even when riding single.
Posted by: WhoDatInDaMud
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Originally posted by: Raptorlegs
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Originally posted by: FsT4WrDCan I ask what does any of this have to do with the thread starters question ?
Cause the guy was trying to put a 5 year old on a 50 and a 6 year old on a 90 and ol WhoDat don't like it.And I don't like the fact that WhoDat thinks he's more capable of making decisions that impact people's lives then the individuals themselves.Hey, it beats daytime television! hr>
Well, lets try and be accurate -
I posted that its hard making the decision to move kids up to bigger faster quads with the way the laws and rules are being more restrictive. (see my first post)
The facts would be more accurately stated in that a few of you guys didn't like THAT!
But there are some that don't like playing by any rules. I wonder what they do for a living......Pilots, doctors, teachers, priests? I hope not.
Posted by: WhoDatInDaMud
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Originally posted by: FsT4WrD
Yes it does beat day time TV. Who dat I understand your position to follow the rules and laws of your state which should be done by everyone but not every state has the same laws. The original thread starter never asked what was the laws and rules for my 6 year to be on a quad, he never asked for a soap box speech about other parents and there faults. He asked a simple enough question on a message board that he felt confident he would get answers to his specific question. If I were new and came in here to ask fellow ATVers which quad is good for my child and the first reply was BUY A PUPPY,NOT A QUAD, I would never come back to this fourm again. If there are threads posted about laws of children on quads then post away or riders in your state in need of help, info, or a good lecture then post away. I have read your posts for 2 days now understand your reasonings and mission, but it does'nt have to be posted in every single thread pay attention to the question at hand and keep it at that. We are all parents in this topic and did'nt come in here to be parented.
FsT4WrD wrote:
"Who dat I understand your position to follow the rules and laws of your state which should be done by everyone but not every state has the same laws."
You didn't even read my post - I posted
Not knowing your location - be advised that some state laws are being changed restricting anyone under age 6 having access to any size ATV. Even on private property..... If not familiar - check your state regulations to avoid problems
This is dead on topic
" he never asked for a soap box speech about other parents and there faults."
all I posted was that Here in Minnesota - giving to young of a kid to large of a ATV can cost you your drivers license, having the quad taken away, fines and if injury is involved - child endangerrment charges. The foolish actions of a few parents have really created ....
My other posts were in direct response or part of discussion directed towards me.
So I'm suppose to ignore the people posting questions or participate in discussions directed to me or my knowledge of the legal aspects of the sport?
What I want to know FsT4Wrd if you want to go to the wall with this.
Its out of line.
Posted by: WhoDatInDaMud
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Originally posted by: FsT4WrD
I really don't think you will be able to find anyone that likes to play by every rule.whats every one do for a living
Thats an interesting comment from a Quad Patrol person.
I can expect to find nobody perfect - but I would hope that we are all doing the best we can to do everything we can in this sport to make it safer and expand its availabilty to every family.
Its a great sport. But a few people are ruining it for the others. And children are getting hurt. The question is - should they be.
Imagine someone coming out with a shrunk down Jr size helicopter. Wouldnt that be a blast! Should everyone go out and get one?
Yes its a exageration - but the principles are the same - the difference is that the outcome is more easily forcasted by a greater number of parents then what we have with the risks of operating ATV's
and basically we are talking about little people that just figured out how to not crap thier pants just a dozen or so months earlier.
Thats not to much of a soap box posting is it?
I just try to stimulate thought and get other peoples perspectives. Iron sharpens iron etc... I've learned a lot from the many parents with youth in here.
I beleive the safety and legal aspects need to be made known. It may help someone reading these posts make the best decision for their child.
Or maybe you would prefer no one touch the safety subject and allow the proponents of under age ATV riding rule the forums.
I don't think Dave would agree.
Posted by: WhoDatInDaMud
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Originally posted by: FsT4WrD
Go to the wall with this ? I am out of line ? Do you just want to bicker ? Are you in need of allot of attention cause not everyone wants to hear what you have to say ? I see it if the original thread starter does not reply to your posts then there is no reason to keep posting in that thread.Or if your post is responded to and has closure to it then why drag it out. Quote
<FONT color=#0000cc>I live in NJ, where the laws are pretty tough, but live next to a farm that provides a safe area for the kids to ride and hone some basic skills.
</FONT>There you go, he heard you out and responded. Now there is others that like to get you all bent outta shape but if thats what you enjoy then so be it.
With all due respect -
You came in to this discussion with a predisposed agenda without even reading my posts and criticized me.
No, I'm just trying to answer questions as they relate to the laws, rules and regulations. Yes my agenda is for youth safety and I spend significant hours each month trying to provide more riding opportunities to more youth through ATV training programs that allow LEGAL operation.
The opponents of this safety talk take offense because it rubs the cat backwards as it relates to their personal safety decisions. I try to provide both sides of the issue and actually make conscience effort to respond only when directly addressed or queried.
Anyone can choose to not read the thread, not read my posts or tell me to drop dead.
About 5 people out of the thousands of topic reads in this forum have done exactly that.
Five.
Posted by: WhoDatInDaMud
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Originally posted by: Raptorlegs
Q]If they aren't breaking any laws, then why not? Everytime you give an example it's some kid riding a 500lb machine. Where is your example of someone riding a 200lb machine. Where is your statistics that say it is more dangerous for an 8 year old to ride a 200lb 70cc machine versus a 200lb 90cc machine?
We need to work on accuracy skills here. I know I've mentioned 185 pound quads at least twice in the last 3 days as I looked it up on the polaris web site for the weight of a predator 50. I've also posted in one or two places that the exhaust pipes can be 400 degrees hot. Thats really hot! Where did I get that number? From my EGT sensor used to check the airplane exhausts mounted behind the muffler on my Honda Recon. Not exact science but a good representation.
Rap - these engine size requirements are not my rules. The laws that each state have passed are the rule for that state. Some states - like Washington for example do not have any ATV requirements. I don't have a problem specific problem with that - but does the lack of a specific law mean its a free for all? No.. failing to provide a reasonsably safe enviroment for children is a common law that causes parents problems every year.
But in many states their are minumum age laws and when a under age child gets hurt or killed - and the law has been violated - then that counts very badly for the sport and the rest of us (me and my family included) who have had the courage to make our children wait for the legal age.
And if 90% of the parents were being responsible with youth access and supervision of ATV's we wouldnt have a doubling of ATV accidents that prompted the CSPC to get involved.
If these things were not a safety problem then I know two kids who would still be alive today. They are dangerous. Parents need to be involved. I salute parents with the tether cords, throttle limiters and those that provide immediate supervision. But lets face it - after a couple of weeks and Jr hasn't wrapped it around a tree- the supervision falls way off. Its terribly difficult to provide that kind of focus for a long time when there are so many other demands on our time. Another issue - when you start a kid at 6 to ride - how many years are you going to be providing that direct supervision? It doesnt go away. Kids will always find that day when they are allowed to scoot off alone to start expermenting.
I think we are all tired of having to go over the same topics. This isn't playing chicken. I'm not going to blink and say its ok for someone to put a 3 year old on a quad. I might explain that its illegal, inappropriete or unsafe. What I don't understand is having to argue the same topic with the same people over and over again. Does arguing the rules and laws make you feel better or what? Its not going to change the laws.
Be a part of the solution - not part of the problem
Posted by: TNTQuadJunkies
Mt DAughteres first quad was a Kasea 90 at the age of 7. She nows races it Highly( modifed now) and my 7 yr old Son has a slightly modded 50 Eton Viper( with 70 mods on it) IMO Both quads are a great quad. The Predaotr 90 is another one I reccomend and have seen first hand in performance .The nice things about ANY one of these quads is there is Aftermarket avail. at later date and substantial time on them
As for the size and age on a mini......Thats a toughy....... My Daughter is VERY tall and Im already in the need for a riser for her 90 an shes only 10 now...There would be NO WAY she would fit SAFELY all the way to an age requirement.. We all have our thoughts on safety and what is "the goods and bads". I believe that it should be just very good judgement from a parent and to not get the child in too far over thre heads with too big of a machine...I could go on an on about it all but I wont. Good luck on whatever you decide... Im sure it will be the right one.... Tina
Posted by: TNTQuadJunkies
I do agreee with TOO many small kids ending up on a quad thats too big. And what I eman by that is the kids youy see that are 7 years old and riding a Grizzly....I personally dont agree with small kids riding these huge machines they are no where near able to fit properly on them.
On the other hand, its just too hard to put an accurate age on a quad alsl due to size of child and skill of rider....
As far as the % fatalities compared to years ago, we also need to remember the amt. of quads we now have compared to then ....BR>I am all about safety when rec. riding or when racing I wish those riders who bring our sport down would think long and hard(referring to all the idiots with no helmets and who drink and ride) about it
Posted by: TNTQuadJunkies
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Originally posted by: Raptorlegs
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Originally posted by: TNTQuadJunkies
I wish those riders who bring our sport down would think long and hard(referring to all the idiots with no helmets and who drink and ride) about it
I agree, always wear a helmet and always come to a complete stop prior to chugging a cold one! Otherwise you'll spill it! BR>
j/k - While I would never deny a fellow brother of a cold refreshing adult beverage, I do agree that binge drinking and quads don't go together at all. Nor does it go with any other motorized vehicle.
LOL.......
Posted by: TNTQuadJunkies
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Originally posted by: Dragginbutt
Yes the numbers are up.. but I suspect many factors come in to play... and one of the biggest would be lack of formal education like what is being taught. I can't say for what goes on in your area, but here in Northern Virginia, it is damn near impossible to get a training date.. and if something happens and they have to cancel, you may have to wait 6 months or more to get another date. Now I know that fot the most part, we are talking about volunteers and having lives of their own etc... but I have waited since 1996 when I bought my first 2 quads.... and I just got in a couple of months ago, only to have it cancelled because of weather.
I also feel that <STRONG><EM>kids under 12 should be allowed to get the training if they are on a mini.</EM></STRONG> Let's face it, whether they are riding a 50, or an 80, the chassis are the same. And speed will be a non issue during the class. <STRONG><EM>totally denying the kid isn't the answer</EM></STRONG>...
So again, if I can't go that route, then it sure would be nice to have the course synopsis available so I can teach him, and learn a bit myself in teh process...
<STRONG><EM>In fact, it would be a good primer for when the beginning rider does attend the course. Make both the student and a parent take the course first before attending the class. Make is a prerequisite....
</EM></STRONG>
It is positive changes like this that could be introduced as a means of getting parents involved, and educate both the kid and parent. Then there can be no denials, no finger pointing... make them sign that they have read it and understand the information....
That makes a heck of a lot more sense than keeping all kids under 16 from riding and having a license to ride... Maybe you could suggest that in the next meeting of the minds.
And THAT I cant totally agree with!!!!!
Posted by: Dragginbutt
Well good luck is all I can say. Although he may be ready for it, in many parts of the country (Keeps getting worse) he may not be able to ride it. I don't know where you live or ride.. but in my experience, it is getting to be a tough ticket if the boy does not meet teh size versus age guidelines. If all you do is ride in teh back yard, you are probably safe.. I hope you don't drive for 6 hours only to be told your son can't ride his... that really sucks. Been there, done that... I started a thread complaining about this.. but am so tired of fighting, I am actually going out to purchase the 50 now so I don't have any more hassles. I want to ride, and I want him to enjoy the thrill right beside me... and I am tired of all the fighting... I gave in and have chosen to fight other battles.
Posted by: Dragginbutt
I guess we should stop focusing on the guidelines, and ask the question why are ATV's being singled out in the first place. A kid under 12 can race gocarts, quarter midgets, MX dirt bikes, personal watercraft all without any restrictions... why then are we being subjected to such scrutiny? The guidelines were writen because of safety issues with 3 wheeled ATV's... today's machines are not even close to being in the same death trap category... Bicycles are more dangerous and cause more injuries and deaths, but you don't see them being limited in their usage.... I don't get it... maybe a class action suit needs to be introduced...
Posted by: Dragginbutt
Yes the numbers are up.. but I suspect many factors come in to play... and one of the biggest would be lack of formal education like what is being taught. I can't say for what goes on in your area, but here in Northern Virginia, it is damn near impossible to get a training date.. and if something happens and they have to cancel, you may have to wait 6 months or more to get another date. Now I know that fot the most part, we are talking about volunteers and having lives of their own etc... but I have waited since 1996 when I bought my first 2 quads.... and I just got in a couple of months ago, only to have it cancelled because of weather.
I also feel that kids under 12 should be allowed to get the training if they are on a mini. Let's face it, whether they are riding a 50, or an 80, the chassis are the same. And speed will be a non issue during the class. totally denying the kid isn't the answer...
So again, if I can't go that route, then it sure would be nice to have the course synopsis available so I can teach him, and learn a bit myself in teh process...
In fact, it would be a good primer for when the beginning rider does attend the course. Make both the student and a parent take the course first before attending the class. Make is a prerequisite....
It is positive changes like this that could be introduced as a means of getting parents involved, and educate both the kid and parent. Then there can be no denials, no finger pointing... make them sign that they have read it and understand the information....
That makes a heck of a lot more sense than keeping all kids under 16 from riding and having a license to ride... Maybe you could suggest that in the next meeting of the minds.
Posted by: Dragginbutt
Yeah I know you are right... I have a lot of respect for you guys... I am just trying to figure out how to make things better... I guess my idea of utopia would be someone elses hell. I don't know what is it going to take... I know what I have done though.. I decided to buy a small fishing boat and we can be found out on the water bonding and killing worms these days...
I will still go riding with my 23 year old son... but the little guy will have to wait his turn. So far, he isn't complaining too much, but eventually he will. He has to settle for the back yard for now. When he turns 16, we will re-assess the situation. The wife has given me the green light to go ahead with the purchase of a 50, but right now, I am just disapointed enough to say it is not worth it, especially when the state is talking about banning kids under 12 from all riding...like Maryland has done... no sense in dropping 2 grand and not be able to gain any benefit from it.
The biggest downside of this whole deal is when I want to take the family on a long trip to ride out west or somewhere that will mean we have to stay for a while... we either have to change our plans or not go altogether since it is not fair for him to have to sit on the sidelines. Probably playing his gameboy or something. We talk about keeping our kids active, but things like this make it hard.
I don't condone abusing the instructors though. That is just insane....
Posted by: Dragginbutt
Ok guys and gals, thanks to my new membership in Honda's Red rider club for ATV's, I did some checking into safety training. They are affiliated with several organizations, but I hit pay dirt on one site. Check out www.ATVSAFETY.ORG and hit the link to the info sheets. On that page, you will find several training related guides with titles like ATV riding tips, State Requirements at a glance, Rider training at a glance, Proper riding gear and industry a glance. All subjects worth reading if you are interested in training of the young, and not so young among us.
After bitching for weeks on this thread, I decided to educate myself first and take action to educate others instead of complaining about it. If anyone else comes across any other sources, let me know. I am looking at trying to get certified and put my money where my mouth is.
Posted by: Dragginbutt
'legs, I think you are right on, but as I have said before, I believe the BEST time for the kids to learn the proper fundamentals is when they are young, and right now, programs for kids under 12 are hit and miss, with some states outlawing them altogether. By the time a kid is 12, they have already formulated a lot of opinions and are not as receptive to "rules". Plus, parents tend to start letting 12 year olds have a little more rope than when they were younger. It doesn't mean they are bad parents, but.. well I think you know what I am talking about...
I would like to see a little more emphasis be placed on the younger set from a training perspective... but like you said, that is one man's opinion.
I would like to draw your attention to some of teh things that some of the bigger compaies are doing to increase their visibility and support to the training programs. I was quite surprised about the level of support that Honda is putting into it's ATV programs. Not only have they partnered with several safety and environmental organizations, they are also setting up and working with local chapters that promoste the same ideals as you mentioned, as well as assisting with working with the government representatives to expand various aspects of our riding sports.
Now before i sound like an advertizement for Honda, let me preface that with the fact that I have 4, and soon to be 5 Yamahas in my garage... but I recently purchased a Rubicon, and that got me involved with Honda's rider's club.
I will say to those that think that ne person can't make a difference. well one can...if it is you.. and if you surround yourself with like minded souls, and join together in addressing the many issues, you can make a difference.
I just joined a local riding club when I found out that they are providing training to novices... I am also pursuing certifications and plan to volunteer my time to do the same. If that doesn' tsit well, maybe you can attend local meetings with the local authorities and le tthem know your concerns. Or maybe just write a note to your local representatives... every bit helps...
Posted by: Dragginbutt
Can't say for the eton, but in some cases, not only the motor changes, but tires and wheels are sometimes bigger in the bigger models and you might gain a couple of gears. At least the Yamaha is that way... Same frame, but different wheel/tire, and you get gears on the 80.
Posted by: Dragginbutt
Yeah that is a tough one.. certainly the parents probably won't cooperate. Sounds like the quad is acting as a surrogate baby sitter. I guess about all you can do in some cases is pray for them... I can't say that I wasn't in the same situation at that age too...and I survived it.. but I would never let my kids do half of the things I did when I was young. All of us kids grew up leaving the house at sun up, and not coming home until sundown. And we did just about everything you could think of... of course we usually were with a bunch of others in the same boat. But you get the picture. Even so, my older son "borrowed" my warrior on occasion and I would come home to find a new dent here, a bent bumper there.. and I would know he had been out with it. I caught him a couple of times when I came home early and his so called friends were on it. that is when I really let them all have it.. and they didn't come around any more after that. Other than the one who broke into my shed and stole the motorcycle. He pushed it over the top of a steep hill then tried to start it.. but forgot to turn on the gas and couldn't get it going. I heard it and thought it was the son sneaking out for a ride... the kid about crapped his pants when I grabbed him and dragged his butt back to the house to await the Sherriff.. He spent a few months at the local "boot camp" over that one. Any way, my point was that I disagree with the trend that kids under 12 are increasingly being shut out of the training courses depending on the state they reside in... I have stated before and will state again, it does not make sense to keep a kid who needs the program the most from taking the course just because of their age. I don't advocate him riding a machine that is obviosly too big for him though. In that case I agree with the instructors to refuse them.
About all you can do is make an offer to instruct them.. maybe make the pitch to the parents... at least then, if the kid does get hurt, you can sleep at night knowing you at least tried...
There are organizations out there called trail ambassadors that have handout material available.. You might check to see what is available in your area. Without being judgmental, it might be worth it to slip one in their mailbox...
Posted by: Dragginbutt
Newnick, I don't know what he answer is going to be... I do think education is key to solving the problems... and this is one of the reasons I am an advocate of reform. If it were me making the call, I think a couple of items I would put into place would be something madatory for the kid and their parent to do together so both can be educated. Maybe something as simple as requiring them to view a video at the dealers that shows basic safety suggestions, and recommendations. Show them the dangers without being gory.. take maybe 15 minutes or so....
Another spin on that would be to have them complete a pre-sale workbook that re-enforces the safety video. It doesn't have to be a pass fail thing... just let them initial that they understand the risks, and know the local laws. Last time I bought a new machine, I had to initial several items that the dealer had to show that they had explained.. why not expand on this checklist?
All this is assuming that they purchase teh correct size quad for their age...
Now as for teh guidelines, I'd also like to see some changes that are based on size of the kid... maybe a minimum height, or weight for each class of quad... Age was a convenient measurement... but maybe offer the height/weight scale as an alternative measurement in conjunction with the current age limit. That would allow the outsized kid and paarent an alternative.
Lastly I would continue to promote the idea that dealers should not sell a quad that does not fit the parameters of the guidelines. I think they do a decent job now, but parents lie.. so put the onus on the lying parent. If their kid gets hurt, make them accountable.
I would also like to see the industry get away from speed and rushing to have the biggest stick.. but that isn't going to happen.. ever. And wouldn't the machines be more stable if they were wider than they are now? The 48 inch standard came about as a result of being able to fit into a pickup bed... not sure that is valid these days...
Posted by: Dragginbutt
I'm not so much hung up on punishment of the parents... but I would like to shift the onus in their direction, so they do not have ammunition to use in suing the manufacturers or the dealer. In other words, make the parent take responsibility for their actions. How many times do you see some news guy stick a mic in someone's face and the first words out of their mouths is "I didn't know". Well BS lady if you signed a statement acknowledging that you were told and understood the dangers.. don't blame the dealer if your kid gets hurt.
You and I are on the same page when it comes to training our kids, making them wear every piece of safety gear available, and supervising their fun. I admit, my attention may wonder from time to time, but generally I can be found in the same general vicinity, and after spending a great deal of time around motorcycles, ATV's, sprint cars, midgets etc, I have developed an ear for exactly what they are doing, and how the machine is acting just by the sounds it makes. Sounds silly, but I can tell when something is not right just by the noises, and my attention is focused immediately.
Lastly I look ath this as there being only two types of riders. those that have crashed, and those that are going to. It isn't a question of if, just when and how bad.
Do I think you are a bad parent because you bought an 80 instead of a 50 like the guidelines require... ABSOLUTELY NOT. Let's face it, for the most part, the kid is never going to get it out of first gear until they get a lot of experience under their belt.. and with the throttle stop, you can go just as slow as the 50. Although I did have to add my own tether/kill switch.. and I just added a chatterbox setup to our helmets so I can talk to him as he rides. By the way, you already know I did the same thing... Although I am now considering getting the 50 only to meet the requirements for the riding areas around here. They follow the guidelines, and he can't ride if he is on his 80. The only problem with that is the 50 is only good for flat surfaces.. and we ride in the mountains.
My other complaint is with lighting on mini's, although I understand it was a conscious decision on the part of the people writing the class specification that they NOT have lighting to keep them from riding at night. Well, let me tell you, lights on in daylight when riding in deep forest not only allow them to see a little better, but it also makes it easier for others to seem them. That is a no brainer as far as I can see.
Posted by: Dragginbutt
Likes to ride, good choice... I made the mistake of NOT staying within the regulations by purchasing a Raptor 80 for our then 8 year old. The decision was based solely on his larger than normal kid size... God only knows the amount of frustration that this simple decision has brought us. Since I bought it, the two states I ride the most in have decided to go in the direction of enforcing the guidelines.. so he can't legally ride it on public lands. In MD, they outlawed under 12 altogether.. no matter where they intended to ride. I also could not get him enrolled in a riding safety course because he didn't fall within their guidelines..
Now although the raptor 80 and 50 are the same frame and body work, the tires are smaller on the 50, and the 50 does not have gears. I don't see that as much of a difference on his 80 since he doesn't take it out of first anyway... so speeds remain comparable.
If you intend to take the kids to a public riding area, i'd suggest you keep to teh guidelines. it just makes life easier. If you beleive as I do that they need to be revised, look for antoehr thread on this subject in this forum category.. and join your voice with the rest of us..
Posted by: FsT4WrD
Can I ask what does any of this have to do with the thread starters question ?
Posted by: FsT4WrD
Yes it does beat day time TV. Who dat I understand your position to follow the rules and laws of your state which should be done by everyone but not every state has the same laws. The original thread starter never asked what was the laws and rules for my 6 year to be on a quad, he never asked for a soap box speech about other parents and there faults. He asked a simple enough question on a message board that he felt confident he would get answers to his specific question. If I were new and came in here to ask fellow ATVers which quad is good for my child and the first reply was BUY A PUPPY,NOT A QUAD, I would never come back to this fourm again. If there are threads posted about laws of children on quads then post away or riders in your state in need of help, info, or a good lecture then post away. I have read your posts for 2 days now understand your reasonings and mission, but it does'nt have to be posted in every single thread pay attention to the question at hand and keep it at that. We are all parents in this topic and did'nt come in here to be parented.
Posted by: FsT4WrD
Quote
Originally posted by: WhoDatInDaMud
some that don't like playing by any rules. I wonder what they do for a living......Pilots, doctors, teachers, priests? I hope not.
I really don't think you will be able to find anyone that likes to play by every rule.
whats every one do for a living
Posted by: FsT4WrD
Go to the wall with this ? I am out of line ? Do you just want to bicker ? Are you in need of allot of attention cause not everyone wants to hear what you have to say ? I see it if the original thread starter does not reply to your posts then there is no reason to keep posting in that thread.Or if your post is responded to and has closure to it then why drag it out.
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<FONT color=#0000cc>I live in NJ, where the laws are pretty tough, but live next to a farm that provides a safe area for the kids to ride and hone some basic skills.
</FONT>
There you go, he heard you out and responded. Now there is others that like to get you all bent outta shape but if thats what you enjoy then so be it.
Posted by: ElectricShift
Guys I had a KX65 when I was about 11, and that bike was FAST, I wouldNT put a 6yr old on one.
Posted by: Raptorlegs
If you don't ride in an area that enforces age limits, then I say the bigger the better. Go for the 90. You can always throttle it back.
Posted by: Raptorlegs
Anybody know anything about the Kasea dirt bikes? Kinda pricey, but that MXR50 with 12HP sounds (and looks) pretty cool! Gas and go too!
The Kawasaki and Yamaha 50's look like they were built in the 70's.
Posted by: Raptorlegs
True, I guess a first timer really doesn't need much. But the duel back shocks remind me of my childhood.
Kawasaki has a kdx50.
Posted by: Raptorlegs
WhoDat, I'm curious. In your safety course, I'm sure you give advice on how to avoid accidents. But, do you teach people how to wreck?
I know that sounds funny, but what I mean is do you teach people things like how and why to throw themselves uphill and away from a potential roll? That priority one when you lose control is to get off and as far away from the vehicle as you can?
Posted by: Raptorlegs
Quote
Originally posted by: TNTQuadJunkies
I wish those riders who bring our sport down would think long and hard(referring to all the idiots with no helmets and who drink and ride) about it
I agree, always wear a helmet and always come to a complete stop prior to chugging a cold one! Otherwise you'll spill it! BR>
j/k - While I would never deny a fellow brother of a cold refreshing adult beverage, I do agree that binge drinking and quads don't go together at all. Nor does it go with any other motorized vehicle.
Posted by: Raptorlegs
Quote
Originally posted by: WhoDatInDaMud
I've already had my tires slashed, harrasing phone calls, been called things that I thought were impossible and other general bad behavior. I won't volunteer for that test. You'll have "almost 10 year olds" showing up, falsified birth certificates and fathers who have drank more fluid then they have bathed in screaming in your face that 10 is unfair and there shouldnt be any age limit and F you and F this program and F the state and anybody who says they can't do what ever the F they want to do. Thanks - but I'll pass.
If you ever want to know why you have these problems....in your own words.
Quote
how do we determine that? Let the parents decide? Ya - right.
Personally, I believe 90% of adults are capable of making their own decisions. And, I have never supported punishing the majority because of a minority. It's ludicrous. So in my opinion, F your program and F your state and anybody who says we can't do what ever the hell we want to do.
Borrowed but applicable.
I just assuming "F" stands for "forget"?
Posted by: Raptorlegs
Quote
Originally posted by: FsT4WrD
Can I ask what does any of this have to do with the thread starters question ?
Cause the guy was trying to put a 5 year old on a 50 and a 6 year old on a 90 and ol WhoDat don't like it.
And I don't like the fact that WhoDat thinks he's more capable of making decisions that impact people's lives then the individuals themselves.
Hey, it beats daytime television!
Posted by: Raptorlegs
Quote
maybe you would prefer no one touch the safety subject and allow the proponents of under age ATV riding rule the forums.
If they aren't breaking any laws, then why not? Everytime you give an example it's some kid riding a 500lb machine. Where is your example of someone riding a 200lb machine. Where is your statistics that say it is more dangerous for an 8 year old to ride a 200lb 70cc machine versus a 200lb 90cc machine?
Posted by: Raptorlegs
Quote
Originally posted by: WhoDatInDaMud
Quote
Originally posted by: Raptorlegs
Q]If they aren't breaking any laws, then why not? Everytime you give an example it's some kid riding a 500lb machine. Where is your example of someone riding a 200lb machine. Where is your statistics that say it is more dangerous for an 8 year old to ride a 200lb 70cc machine versus a 200lb 90cc machine?
We need to work on accuracy skills here. I know I've mentioned 185 pound quads at least twice in the last 3 days as I looked it up on the polaris web site for the weight of a predator 50. I've also posted in one or two places that the exhaust pipes can be 400 degrees hot. Thats really hot! Where did I get that number? From my EGT sensor used to check the airplane exhausts mounted behind the muffler on my Honda Recon. Not exact science but a good representation.
Rap - these engine size requirements are not my rules. The laws that each state have passed are the rule for that state. Some states - like Washington for example do not have any ATV requirements. I don't have a problem specific problem with that - but does the lack of a specific law mean its a free for all? No.. failing to provide a reasonsably safe enviroment for children is a common law that causes parents problems every year.
But in many states their are minumum age laws and when a under age child gets hurt or killed - and the law has been violated - then that counts very badly for the sport and the rest of us (me and my family included) who have had the courage to make our children wait for the legal age.
And if 90% of the parents were being responsible with youth access and supervision of ATV's we wouldnt have a doubling of ATV accidents that prompted the CSPC to get involved.
If these things were not a safety problem then I know two kids who would still be alive today. They are dangerous. Parents need to be involved. I salute parents with the tether cords, throttle limiters and those that provide immediate supervision. But lets face it - after a couple of weeks and Jr hasn't wrapped it around a tree- the supervision falls way off. Its terribly difficult to provide that kind of focus for a long time when there are so many other demands on our time. Another issue - when you start a kid at 6 to ride - how many years are you going to be providing that direct supervision? It doesnt go away. Kids will always find that day when they are allowed to scoot off alone to start expermenting.
I think we are all tired of having to go over the same topics. This isn't playing chicken. I'm not going to blink and say its ok for someone to put a 3 year old on a quad. I might explain that its illegal, inappropriete or unsafe. What I don't understand is having to argue the same topic with the same people over and over again. Does arguing the rules and laws make you feel better or what? Its not going to change the laws.
Be a part of the solution - not part of the problem
Problem is that we can't seem to agree on what the solution is. I am sorry for the losses of those children. And I am sorry that you seem to feel responsible. I am sorry that is further proof that your course flat doesn't work.
I have held back more than you'll ever know regarding some of your posts. You continue to make me out to be the bad guy making references to not following the rules. Who's rules WhoDat? You mean an agreement made with the cpsc and manufacturers? How are they relevant to me? My own state does not recognize them on private property. Maybe your referring to YOUR rules?
I try to base my recommendations on the person's unique situation. You try to discourage people through your gloom and doom speeches and biased statistics.
I bought the quads to ride together. I do not have land around my house, we have to drive. My supervision will last until my kid gets a license and can go without me. By then she'll have had 10 years of experience. I think that's enough.
I am going to challenge you to be part of the solution WhoDat. I think telling people to check their local laws is sufficient instead of telling them their child will most likely be injured or killed cause they don't follow YOUR rules. Try helping them ride safely with the decisions they make instead of running them off. If you want to influence people, you can't do it from the top of a pedestal.
For the record, your puppy comments really don't help anyone.
Posted by: Raptorlegs
Quote
If you haven't seen a "parent" that has put there kid in danger (riding a ATV that is obviously to big for them, no proper riding gear, riding double, letting them ride like a maniac, etc, etc.) I would applaud those folks that ride in your area.........
I can only speak for my riding area, but I am proud to say for the little tykes between 6-10 years of age that I have not seen one without a helmet or supervision in years. I think awareness is growing.
Older children are a different story but I'd say 80% of them at least wear a helmet. This is compared to about 20% 15 years ago. Heck, I've even started wearing one. There was I time I swore that would never happen.
Here in the REAL WORLD, the regs aren't being followed and the results on these safety courses are questionable at best. We don't need new uneforceable laws, we need to change the way we think and influence others.
I think everyone on here believes education is good, including myself. I think dealers should provide information on safety. I think manufacturers should give incentives for the purchase of safety equipment. I think if you want to make a difference, create a riders club and encourage newbies to join and ride with you. See if you can work with local dealers to set dates and events and become an example and a teacher. That's how you make a difference.
If anything, I think the gov should restrict the weight of the machine based on age. Not based on cc's. But then I think they should butt out. jmo.
Posted by: Raptorlegs
Quote
Originally posted by: Dragginbutt
By the time a kid is 12, they have already formulated a lot of opinions and are not as receptive to "rules". Plus, parents tend to start letting 12 year olds have a little more rope than when they were younger. It doesn't mean they are bad parents, but.. well I think you know what I am talking about......
This is where I keep scratching my head, Dragginbutt. The kid who is about this age, a parent buys him an 400lb quad and turns Junior loose in the back pasture. I can't think of a way to reach this kid. The parents aren't going to bring them to a training program and Junior isn't old enough to drive (not that he'd be caught dead with a bunch of old farts anyway). What do you do, offer to pick the kid and quad up? You think anybody would take you up on it? Sure wouldn't send my kid off with a stranger. BR>
I'm open to suggestions on that one.
Posted by: Scramblur50
Quote
Originally posted by: DANO38
Why not go with a predator 90??? My son loves his 90, and it really isn't outa hand with uncontrollible power!!! yes, accidents can happen, and that is what scares me the most...but i remember the yz 80 I had at age 10, man did that thing flie!!!! It would do 60 plus
and had unreal acceleration!!! not like this tame 90cc 2-stroke in the predator 90. If it weren't for me being so scared of my kid
getting hurt, I'd be trying to shoe horn a yz motor into it right now!!!
There's alot more potential in that Predator 90 motor.. you just need to exploite it. Not saying that a dirtbike motor wouldn't be better, but the 90cc atv motors have a lot more left in them than they do in stock form.
Bryce
Posted by: Bluetickracing
I say also get a 90 cc quad. And get him the bike. My 6 yr olds rides both. He also rides a Polini x3 works bike. And is just as good on it. He loves the bike more because of the wicked responce on the throttle. If your kid can ride both them you can really have some fun at the races. We can race 4 races in a weekend. Two races on the quad and 2 on the bikes. He races them both in the older class also. The day is full of racing.
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Posted by: DANO38
Why not go with a predator 90??? My son loves his 90, and it really isn't outa hand with uncontrollible power!!! yes, accidents can happen, and that is what scares me the most...but i remember the yz 80 I had at age 10, man did that thing flie!!!! It would do 60 plus
and had unreal acceleration!!! not like this tame 90cc 2-stroke in the predator 90. If it weren't for me being so scared of my kid
getting hurt, I'd be trying to shoe horn a yz motor into it right now!!!
Posted by: 2StrOkeFReaK
How bout getting him on a MX bike. Take him down to your local Kawi shop and see if he is big enough to touch a toe to the ground on a KX 65. The skills he will develope at his age will be worth the switch, and the bike will last through a few kids.
I just dont feel kids should be on quads till their mid teens, after having honed their skills on a bike.
just my .02
Freak
Posted by: oldyeller
I'd get him the 90.Like raptorlegs said you can throttle it back to a speed you are comfterable with and the rest of the bike is the same size as the 90 so there is no difference there.
Posted by: oldyeller
The 05 E-tons have a cdi box that has 7 settings that allow you to control the rpms of the bike.This along with the throttle screw should allow you to slow the 90 right down.
Posted by: Quad4Fun
Fist off, I'm not stepping in between FsT4WrD and WhoDatInDaMud.
Although I don't have completely the same take on WhoDat as FsT4WrD does.
All the Laws and regulations come about because of a "few" stupid, ignorant, or just plain don't care type of people (including Parents). If you haven't seen a "parent" that has put there kid in danger (riding a ATV that is obviously to big for them, no proper riding gear, riding double, letting them ride like a maniac, etc, etc.) I would applaud those folks that ride in your area. Because I can say I've personally seen many of the instances I've listed, plus some. From the local riding areas here to the Dunes in Oregon. The problem is not isolated.
I have not been shy about my mouth when I thought it appropriate (and sometimes not .
Some of it may just be that the parents really just don't understand the dangers, which IMO is ignorant.
Parents need to be educated first and/or along with their kids.
Somebody has to protect the kids, because they are just not experienced enough or mentally able to understand. Kids just want to ride, they want to ride fast, ride anything they can get on, and want to ride any and everywhere.
Again, I don't agree with all the rules and laws out there, but they are there for a reason and at least they are something. People shouldn't complain if they don't try to be part of the process. I would rather have kids over-protected that under-protected.
ATTA BOY to Dragginbutt, keep it up my friend.
Here is the biggest reason this issue is so big (as quoted below).
Quote
And if 90% of the parents were being responsible with youth access and supervision of ATV's we wouldnt have a doubling of ATV accidents that prompted the CSPC to get involved.
If these things were not a safety problem then I know two kids who would still be alive today. They are dangerous. Parents need to be involved. I salute parents with the tether cords, throttle limiters and those that provide immediate supervision. But lets face it - after a couple of weeks and Jr hasn't wrapped it around a tree- the supervision falls way off. Its terribly difficult to provide that kind of focus for a long time when there are so many other demands on our time. Another issue - when you start a kid at 6 to ride - how many years are you going to be providing that direct supervision? It doesnt go away. Kids will always find that day when they are allowed to scoot off alone to start expermenting.
Enough for now, or I'll ramble on. Which I can do pretty good when I'm tired (even better when I 'm not, LOL)
What time is it anyway, yikes BR>Sorry, no spell or grammer check tonight, this morning, whenever........
Posted by: confusedbuyer
nothing wrong with an LT80 either, and there are lots of them used. plus lots of room for mods if you so desire.they are the Sherman tank of kids quads, been around longer than any of the others with no significant design changes.Actually, their design has been copied a lot.
I agree a dirtbike would be good, my son has one. but i'd NEVER start him on a KX60 or 65. They are a motocross screamer with a hand clutch. you'd completely scare the crap outta him. think of the first time he releases the clutch and gases it too much (cuz he's getting frustrated over the last 4 times he stalled it by not gasing it enough). that front end will pop up, he'll panic and hold throttle wide open and you'll never see him on it again. I'd start him on an auto like a Yamaha PW 50 or 80, or a Honda 50 or 70. 3 are semi automatic 3 speeds (no clutch). The PW50 is just gas and go. Yams are shaft drive, Hondas are heavier, and 4-strokes, so you can still putt on trails. That KX is a motocross bike that wants to be driven hard and fast, not putted on. I think it's way too much bike for a young beginner. might be okay for a teen beginner or a good rider/super experienced kid.
Where were you on this one whodatindamud? I thought you woulda ripped that guy a new behind for that advice. much more dangerous than a kid jumping on an adult's quad.
Posted by: confusedbuyer
I didn't think Kawi made a 50. The Yamaha has been bullett proof and easy to ride for years, so why change something that successful?
Posted by: confusedbuyer
thanks for deteriorating this thread to a pi$$ing contest. the beauty of freewill is that i can now put the clever "unsubscribe" feature to use.
Hooray for WA state, my border state. Maybe they have no laws because it hasn't reached the same epidemic proportion as other states. not to say it won't happen. And same here in BC, virtually no regulation, and definitely nothing that's enforced. BUT, always read into what's happening elsewhere as coming down the pipe for the rest of us.
Posted by: Likes2Ride
Hi guys,
My son just turned 6 and has been riding a Predator 50 well. I want to give the Predator to my 5 year old daughter and am thinking of getting either the Eton 70 or the Eton 90 for my son. I am leaning towards the 70 since it is probably safer... looking for some advice.
Thanks
Posted by: Likes2Ride
Thanks for the advice all, I really appreciate it. I will go with the larger quad (80cc or 90cc)... just need to check out which one is the best deal, the Eton looks good for the price (~$1800). I like the Polaris too, but it is over $2 grand and I do not want to spend that much. I will also check out the Kasea and the LT-80, they seem like good quads. I live in NJ, where the laws are pretty tough, but live next to a farm that provides a safe area for the kids to ride and hone some basic skills.
Posted by: Likes2Ride
Hey Newnick,
That's exactly what I was thinking. For a 6 year old, we will definitely get our money's worth from the 70, then when the time is right, sell it and move up to a 90 or higher. I think for now I am going to stay within the regulations (I believe a 6 year old can ride a 70) in case he gets hurt and we need to use insurance to cover an injury. A friend of mine has a 10 year old that just got seriously hurt (requiring surgery, though no permanent damage) on a 90 last week and it will be interesting to see how insurance covers it. Knowing that quads are machines that need to be respected, no matter what the size, is very important and as a parent, I have a responsibility to play it conservative rather than risky when buying one for him. That being said, different kids develop at different rates, so I can only say and do what is right for my kid.
Posted by: ostrich
I believe lem makes a hi-perf 50 that makes a good show of it against 90cc machines, cayman I think. Yes you can throttle back a 90, but its not only power its the size of it, would he honestly fit correctly on it, as far as being able to use proper body englidh ect? Be honest woth yourself, wait to move him up untill he can ride the wheels All the way off the one he already has. My 9 yr. old is average size, but has a high level of riding ability, and he doesn't want a faster quad than a 90cc. I'm not preaching it's just 6 yrs is young UNLESS the kid is talented, you have to make that call, but the slower you bring them along, the more they learn WITHOUT the bumps and bruise. That should make it more fun for the three of you not to mention the wife
Posted by: ostrich
likes to ride good choice, having more than one kid to ride the 70, you'll get your use out of it. Besides used youth quads, really hold their value. Also good job looking around the p$ss#ng contest that these sort of questions always bring around.
Posted by: newnick
Likes2ride, not sure if your following this post still or not. I'm not sure but I think a Eton 70 and a Eton 90 are the same frame etc. just different cc's. I might be wrong, you could do a search here or on the other forums. I am sure I've seen some posts about the subject. Anyway you could start him out with the 70 and then later change the cylinder and piston to a 90. You could change the 50 to a 70 also.
Posted by: newnick
The Safety issue is wide open as far as a individuals interpretation of whats best for their child. My neighbor bought their 6 yr. old a knockoff honda 100cc, he'd never been on a quad before. Luckily he hasn't hurt himself yet. Whats worse is their 11 yr. old got a 400cc for his first quad, also no experience. They both have open face helmets, which they sometimes wear. The parents thoughts on the size issue is that they will have them for a longer period of time before they outgrow them. My son has had dirtbikes and fourwheelers since he was 6 , and has all the gear for safety. The neighbor asked my opinion before buying the quads and I told her both quads were to large for her kids and explained about the need for helmets etc. She thinks it's fun to ride with 3 kids and a dog on the fourwheeler on the street. She has no concept of safety. There's not much you can do about people that don't understand common sense, Thats why there are laws governing size. The laws are also there to try to keep dealers from selling parents that have no clue what size machine to get their kids, a machine thats to large. All we can do is try to educate the best we can , and try to learn also as we go. I've found a good tool for helping me with my boy. I went to Streetbikeworld.com , they have a pics section that shows wrecks. My boy has a better understanding now of what dad has been trying to tell him about safety, a very graffic understanding. Be safe.
Posted by: newnick
I'm sure there's no real answer to the dangers kids face growing up, whether its quads, toys, other kids, grown ups , seatbelts, drugs etc. I care for the kids next door and try to watch out for them as well as my own, but I'm not their parent. Once when I was 12 or 13 one of my friends parents were out of town and their Grandmother that lived with them was watching them. There was 3 boys, the oldest was my age. They decided to take their dads Suzuki 750 and a shotgun down to the local dump for a little fun. They had to take turns riding the rest of us out there one by one. I'm kinda surprised we didn't get cought , all the trips we had to make. Anyway we survived , no wrecks, nobody got shot. We had fun. Thats just one of the many things we foolishly did as kids to pass the time and all of it was fun at the time. Extremely dangerous as well. Needless to say I keep a real close I on my son, and I tell him he can talk to me about anything he wants to. So far he's doing pretty good.
Posted by: newnick
Good deal, The old saying, better safe than sorry applies. I'm sure the little guy would like the 70cc and they'll both have a fourwheeler, so they can ride together. And you can hop them up if you want to.
Posted by: Glimp
The regulations are good for those parents who dont behave as they should but I'm not so sure they help as much as many would lead you to believe. I'm all for education but regulations dont help all that much. As an example:
Parents go out and buy their kid a 50 when the child is 6. They send him to a training course because they have to. Then the kid gets home rides with supervision for a week then the parents figure he's set and let him go around the backyard track without supervision (it happens with most parents if were honest).
This is the ideal scenario as far as I'm concerned. Remember were talking about generally bad parents. But here are a few other scenarios.
A parent goes out and buys a used 80 for his 6 year old. Teaches the kid where the brakes are, gives him a helmet and watches him for a few days then lets him ride alone on the back track while he watches the game inside.
The regulations do almost nothing. He does give his kid a helmet (probably as a result of education somewhere down the road) The same scenario happens for parents who buy quads online or lie about their childs age.
Another parent (me) goes out, buys his 6 year old a 80. Sets the screw so the kid can't go over 8 or 10 mph. Buys spacers for the wheels so the quad sits about 4 inches wider than stock. The kid wears a helmet, boots, gloves and chest protector. Teaches the kid for a hour or two a day for a week how to stop, lean and avoid accidents. We talk about going across hills and the dangers of flipping over. After a few weeks of staying within 50 feet of the kid I sit nearby keeping an eye on him every time he takes the thing out and at the very most read a book while sitting there.
Is my kid any less safe than the first two children? Of course he isnt following the guidelines. Am I a bad parent? I would argue that my child is better equiped for the experiance than even the kid on the 50 with a half day training course.
Here is my biggest problem with what everyone is saying. There is a chance that children will get hurt or , God forbid, die no matter how much training and time you put into keeping him safe just like there is for an adult on a quad. Many people here have said to hold the parents responsible. How do you do that? If I were held responsible by the regulations I would be in trouble if my kid shows up at the ER with a broken arm even tho the quad, child and terrain is as managable as possible and I've done everything within my power to keep my son safe.
There are dozens of things a child can do to get hurt or killed. Many of these things we allow them to do. Sports, riding horse, driving go-carts, riding bicycles and skateboards could all be put in the same category along with alot other things. I guess we should just ban kids from doing any of these things so they can be guarenteed a safe childhood. We should also ban crossing the street, playing in gym at school and karate class. While were at it why not put the kids in a padded room till theyre 18 and they can make their own decisions.
Accidents happen. We need to educate parents on parenting. We need to educate children on how to ride. We don't need more regulations aimed at making blanket statements that arent always based on real world scenario's.
