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Posted by: geo
as to the dealer's comments-
- you can rule out water. period.
- certainly he would have checked the crankcase for evidence of oil. was there any? an aircooled motor that has run out of oil and catastrophically failed usually smells really bad and there's obvious evidence of distress (usually gauling and bluing of highly stressed surfaces)
- the camshaft being "messed" up? again, if it was lubrication/friction related i could buy this. but first you have answer whether it has run out of oil (my gut says no). the only other way for the cam to get messed up is by dirt etc getting into the bearings, journal surfaces, or cam lobe area. even if the valves became seized in the guides (did they?), the cam might only show some minor sign of distress.
- ultimately, the piston tapped the valves and bent them either because the cam timing was lost (any competent service guy could tell you this in 15 min), or the valve(s) became seized in the guides (slightly more difficult to diagnose without disassembling the top end). if the latter is the case, then the question becomes "why did the valve seize?". this can be challenging to answer- lube, contaminated oil, oil starvation, etc...
- go to another mechanic
Posted by: Kawi650
Did you check your air filter is clean or is there mud in there? We had a champ and mud up to the seat didn't bother it. Sounds a little fishy to me. Take it to an other dealer or call yami.
Posted by: airmoore
Hello everyone
I have a situation here that I hope some of you can give me some advice on. I own a Yamaha Breeze that is ridden by one of my boys (age 6). All of the riding is done under supervision on our place in East Texas. This Breeze is only about 1 1/2 years old.
The other day, I was watching him ride when the engine suddenly died. I walked over to the Breeze thinking it might be out of gas. (it was not) When I engaged the starter, it sounded funny like the engine was not even turning, so I loaded it on a trailer and took it to my dealer.
Understand that the kind of riding we do is primarily trail type on a ranch here in East Texas. All supervised by an adult, with some mud in the winter for fun.
The dealer called me and said that "both valves are bent" and that the camshaft is "messed up". He said that it was caused by either (1) no oil or (2) water ingested into the engine. He quoted a price of $575.00 to repair it.
Keep in mind that this is is a very new low time machine. Now to address his reasons for this happening: (1) No oil - the machine has never even been low on oil,( never even had to add any) and it was at a normal level when I took it to the shop. (2) Water ingested into the engine - The only water we have been around is riding on the ranch when it is wet or raining. He does ride the Breeze through puddles and such, but has never ridden it through deep enough water to ingest it into the engine. It was not ingested through the tailpipe because I am the only one who washes it.
My questions are these: (1) what would cause this to happen to an engine like this? Is there anything else that would cause this (such as a factory defect)? I am very picky about our 4 wheelers, and do not think that this Breeze has ever been in water deep enough to do this. Surely, a spray of water from a puddle a few inches deep cannot do this to the engine, can it? (2) If this is what is wrong with the engine ( I am going to take it somewhere else and get a second opinion) is the quote to repair it too high? Sounds high to me. The only parts included are a camshaft, valves, piston rings and O rings and gaskets. Is it normal to replace the piston rings without replacing the piston and/or cylinder?
I appreciate any help you guys can give on this subject, obviously a repair of this magnitude was not in the budget for this summer. Thanks again for all of the advice...
Clint
Posted by: airmoore
You all have the same thoughts that I do...
1. It is definitely not because of lack of oil or water ingestion. It had oil to a normal level when I took it to the shop. The water ingestion is not possible, we never went thru any water deeper than a few inches, plus if water did cause it, it would have died right there in the water at that time.
I talked to an engineer with Yamaha (thru a friend of mine that works at the Yamaha plant in Georgia). He said that water was not the issue, that it either ran out of oil or had a defective part such as a defective valve. Many of the parts for these small engines come from Taiwan, and they have had quality control issues with some of them. He also indicated that he thought the repair estimate was too high.
I am going to talk to the owner of the dealership about it Saturday, and see what he has to say. (I bought the machine from that dealership). If the dealership can't help me in any way, then I am going to take it to another mechanic for another opinion. I think it was a factory defect that caused the engine to fail.
If any of you have any other comments or suggestions, I certainly would appreciate it and thanks to all of you for trying to help, I will keep you posted...
Clint
Posted by: oldyeller
I'm not really familiar with the breeze but I'm going to assume that it has an overhead camshaft that is driven by a chain from the crankshaft.I'm wondering if somehow the camshaft got out of time and the valves hit the piston and got bent.This can happen if the chains tensioner came loose or something happened to the sprockets that turn the chain or the chain may have even brokeThe only other thing I can think of is that something is binding in the valvetrain,maybe a valve siezing in the guide for some reason?Perhaps there is a problem that the valvetrain is not getting oiled properly and the dealer is just assuming that it was run low on oil..I'm not buying water ingestion stories.I would get another opinion from an unbiased source if you can.
Posted by: confusedbuyer
yep, I've swamped Yamahas and it just dies. You drain water out of carb and go. In severe cases, we got water in oil, did 2-3 oil changes and everything ran great. I'm with maurie, for amount of time you have on machine and type of riding, this would be an ugly black eye for Yamaha. They should do this free, or at least pay 3/4.
On my Ford truck, I blew tranny pulling a monster load in second gear, and it doesn't shift to 1st gear when you've manually shifted to 2nd. I was over my warranty on both time and mileage, plus it was my fault for being stupid. Since I'd done my recommended maintenance, Ford paid for 3/4 of it under their "goodwill warranty".
Did you ever do the first service at a Yamaha dealer, which includes valve adjustment? If you did, even more reason to ram it down their throat to honor the atv's higher price, by virtue of the fact you bought a known brand name instead of some cheap unknown, off-shore junk.
Posted by: maurie
i reckon the key to this problem is that "both the valves were bent".. that means that they had stopped and the piston kept going.
If the distributor is any good and the motor is low hours, they should pick up the tab on this one! regardless or warranty being expired or not
