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Posted by: dual-sporter
if you're in spain you should know more about it than us! i'd like to find out if i can take a vacation to spain and rent them to ride on the streets!
i've been watching with great curiosity too...
there are a couple guys that have the 300 2-stroke, but as of yet none of the 450 thumpers have been seen or tested that i know of. i found a review article on the 450 dirtbike in an australiam mag. and they liked it a lot.
as for the 300 2-stroke quad, there is no long term test yet, but right now the only complaints are stiff front shocks and steering that feels like it has a really stiff damper on it. power delivery is very smooth from what every source says. the 52" width is too wide for any trail rider, but GG says they are working on a 48" width and advertise it on the sales brochure.
i'm undecided between 2-stroke & 4- stroke still, but lean toward 2-stroke b/c i ride dunes a couple times a year
Posted by: dual-sporter
i went to the nearest dealer to me yesterday & test rode a gas gas 450 4-stroke yesterday. rumor has it they have changed the front suspension since the first release and the problems found by the mags are fixed. the one i tested had the older front suspension design and i concur with the finding of the mags in that it felt like it had a damper on it at full hard, requiring some effort in the steering, but otherwise the machine felt awesome. the other problem areas i noticed were- the seat/tank area feels wide & tall, the bar bend isn't right for me, stator cover P-coat was starting to bubble & flake, & plastics didn't have the best fit & finish. but... i love the clutch, shifting is smooth as glass(nuetral was tough to find when it was running), it feels very stable, and power delivery was very smooth. i dig the gadgets on the dashboard!! (run time meter, hazard flasher button- if i add signals, clock & ??) another cool fact is that it has both electric start & kick start!
the dealer & salespersons were trying thier best to convince us the thumper is faster than the 2-stroke on the track(which it may very well be in the hands of a pro), another prospective buyer was there too... he's worried about it b/c this is thier 1st quad effort. they were trying thier best to get us to put cash down, but i'm not ready to do that just yet... got too much stuff to sell first.
overall i'm impressed.
i've decided i'm going to get one, but- my debate is 2-stroke vs. 4-stroke...
Posted by: dual-sporter
no the guys at skagit powersports said that since the thumper is 'faster' that's all they plan to order... but if i still want the 2-stroke, i can have them order it.
you did send me pics of the updated front end... thanks again. i'm leaning toward the 2-stroke still.
Posted by: Trx440
They are not here yet. Our local dealer, who has sold 5 300's, is expecting the 450 in Late Feb. The first one is sold and the second one is mine. No more jetting, finally.
Posted by: Trx440
Dual,
They didn't have a 2-stroke there I take it? I hopefully will be able to ride both at the dunes, back 2 back, this weekend. I'm with you, I like all the gadgets. Did I send you the pix? Hard Rock told me to expect the large body shocks on the 4-strokes in the future even though the 2-strokes got the updated boingers. The 450 still had the modified a-arms however. The fuel injection is gonna be the deal maker for me. We ride @ elevations from below sea level to over 10,000 ft. I'll let you guys know my thoughts and how they run next to my 440ex and ATC 265R. -RT
Posted by: Trx440
Got a call from the Gas Gas dealer today. The 450 came in yesterday and they were putting it together today. Gonna drop by in the AM to check it out. Hopefully the rain will have ended and he lets me take it for a little spin. I'll take the digital camera and nab a few pix. Momma put the kabosh on buying it. I have to sell a couple of toys first and I am gonna take the summer off then buy the 450 [if I like it] around Oct 1st.
Posted by: Trx440
Hey guys,
Sorry it took so long to post. I saw both bikes next to each other. The 450 already has the updated front end and the weight difference doesn't seem noticeable. It's hard to believe it's a 400lb bike. It feels lighter than my 400 but feels bigger in size when sitting on it. I'm getting one for sure, next fall. I've got some pix. -RT
Posted by: Trx440
68hp at the rear wheels?? You'll have a hard time convincing anyone of that. I just wanted to reply before this gets ugly.
Posted by: Trx440
I'll believe it when GT Thunder posts a chart with 68hp at the rear wheels. I don't trust anybody elses dyno reports that are posted. I'm not slamming it, hey, I'm gonna buy one this fall unless Honda comes out with a fuel injected quad [yeah right]
Anyways, weights and measurements are all goofed up in England. You ask for a pound and they give you a dollar and sixty six cents. jk
leeroy,
How does the stage 3 Gas Gas compare to the W-tec or EML with the big 685-700cc Maico or Zabel 2 strokes? From the sound of it, you should be much faster than the Husaberg 650 or KTM 520.
Posted by: derbyking
what kind of price tag you guys seeing on both quads?im seriously considering getting one and was leaning towards the 2-stroke.ive been told the 300 is faster than a cannondale,how much faster could the thumper be?and is the 4 stroke heavier.
i read the dirt wheels test,what a bunch of idiots,it was good they pointed out some of the early problems but to compaire this to a 250r is stupid,when is the last time they rode a stock 250r?the gas gas as all the right peices you would want to dial it in the way you want it.the 250r didnt have any chromoly,ohlins shocks ect ect ect ect.to buy a 250r with all the same quality componets would cost more than twice the 7600 msr.it seems to be what ktm is to mx bikes.i did notice they never mentioned the very reasonable (imo)price tag
Posted by: derbyking
Quote
Originally posted by: lt250r91
The 300 list for $7695 at 386lbs and 43 hp to the rear wheels
the 450 list for $8195 at 408lbs and 45-46 hp to the rear wheels
I own but the cannondale speed and GasGas 300 and for top speed the GasGas is about 5-10mph faster. I'd guess the 450 would be about 2-3 mph faster than the 300 do to the added hp.
The review Dirtwheels did on it was dead on other than comparing it to the 250r. GasGas has some handling/suspension issues. I've been told that the newer 03's have fixed these problems. I can't say it for sure though.
what does the 300 feel like when sitting on it?is it simaler to other quads or does it have any weird things about it?considering they fixed the steering and shocks is there anything else you would change,and how is it as far as bump steer?sounds like the motor is plenty healthy
i have a built raptor and want a lighter weight play quad with good handeling/suspension/power
Posted by: derbyking
anybody knpw a website were i can ck out the 450?
Posted by: 1986atc250r
Quote
Look at the cannondales. The base model puts out 33 and the moto is 39 and with a little more maping change and relocating the fuel injectors and light head mods you can get the moto up to 52-55 hp.
Whoa now before it gets too deep in here...
We're getting a little wild with apples to oranges comparisons with different dyno brands, different operators, different methods, different claims, etc.
On a typical dynojet dyno a Cannondale Cannibal puts out about 37hp at the rear tires. With pipe and mapping (for the pipe) that raises to about 42-43HP - that's for a Moto or Cannibal.
There is not 13hp from mapping. Mapping is not black magic, it's electronic jetting and timing. Fuel injection does not improve horsepower, it improves efficiency, tuneability, and rideability. There is not 55hp in a Cannondale engine without serious modifications. Most are finding a wall in the mid 40's.
If GG is getting 68hp from their 450, Honda (the largest engine manufacturer in the world) will be knocking on their door soon to buy their magic technology. The CRF450R puts out 55hp at the crank & there is not much room for improvement. From what I understand, the GG 450 is weaker compared to the current crop of hight tech Japanese 450cc singles.
Posted by: 1986atc250r
I don't mean to sound negative, but they're dreaming...
These modern 450's are built to the hilt from the factory. From what I understand, the GG 450 is milder than the Yamaha or Honda which is why it doesn't put as much out when stock - I am sure there are improvements to be made, but they're going to be small improvements. I guarantee you'll get no where even close to 68 RWHP without boost or a bottle.
Even if it were possible, you'll have to change to a higher flow rate injector & spend some serious time with custom mapping for that kind of boost in HP. Get ready to dish out the dollars.
Posted by: lt250r91
The 300 list for $7695 at 386lbs and 43 hp to the rear wheels
the 450 list for $8195 at 408lbs and 45-46 hp to the rear wheels
I own but the cannondale speed and GasGas 300 and for top speed the GasGas is about 5-10mph faster. I'd guess the 450 would be about 2-3 mph faster than the 300 do to the added hp.
The review Dirtwheels did on it was dead on other than comparing it to the 250r. GasGas has some handling/suspension issues. I've been told that the newer 03's have fixed these problems. I can't say it for sure though.
Posted by: lt250r91
Well at first when you sit on it it feels like the front is up to high and rear is pulled down. But after riding it awhile it's actually nice. I'm having the suspension changed as we speak by the quad shop so I'd don't know how this will change the ride yet. I'll know at florida next weekend.
As far as bump steer, I really couldn't tell do to mine having stiff steering. I'm also in the process of trying to fix this too and will have an answer in florida if what I change fixes it.
The only other things I've changed have been tires & wheels (holeshot xct's and Hiper carbon fiber rims). I'm also added brush guards on the handle bars. I'll be adding a steering damper as soon as I solve the steering issue. I've added lt-racing jet kit, power valve cover, CRD air filter (lt-racing sells them) and lt-racings case saver. Most if not all the stuff I've changed are for GNCC racing set-up. None of the stuff is a must but does help the performance and protection of the quad. The power valve smooths the power band out more on the quad.
The engine on this machine is flat out awesome. Smoothest most controlable 2-stroke I've ever riden.
With the -2 a-arms that I have had custom built for woods racing my front suspension has been limited in travel so I'm looking to replace the front factory shocks with something with more travel. I'll have all the deals in a couple of weeks when I get back from the first 2 rounds of the GNCC's. So look for a race reviews and an article on my set-up in the racing section in a couple weeks.
Mike
Posted by: lt250r91
Trx
Make sure if you get one that it has the newer Front end with the 19" long shocks. The old style sucks and is a pain to get dialed in. I know this from owning one of the older 17 1/2" long front shocks. Plus the parts well be harder to get on the old style. Let us all know on how the test ride goes and what your impressions of the quad are. I'll post my race results in about 1 1/2 weeks on how mine does at round 1 and 2 of the GNCC's.
Posted by: lt250r91
Leeroy
Thanks for the info.
One question though what kind of dnyo did you use to get the horespower rating? Lazarus at GT Thunder dyno mine on a Dyno Jet with 18" slicks and got a HP rating of 42.7 at the rear wheels. I talked to another racer that had his dyno at 43.5 or so at the rear wheels. To see my dnyo sheet and specs on my custom a-arms check out Gt Thunder and look under the the GasGas link.
The newer 300 have the same shocks as the 450 4-stroke.
Couple more questions on the 4-stroke, what is the name of the software and price of the kit? Is there multiple kits? Multiple map choices (like a woods, motocross, dunes, and trail riding) versions?
Any idea on the release of the narrower a-arms?
Thanks for your time.
Mike
GNCC #265
Posted by: lt250r91
From my personal experience and what my dealer has told me. GasGas has been close if not spot on on all the specs they give for there machines. They (unlike the big 4) don't has claim dry weight and so called specs. I've been told you can take the GasGas machines and weigh them and they will be very close to the weight that the factory says. So what would they gain by lieing (like the rest do) and then be proven wrong. I know my 300 quad dynoed at 42.7 to the rear wheel and the sheet for the 300 bike says 49-50 hp. I figure with the quad weighting more and having to wheels to turn instead of one it would reduce the number and 7 hp sounds right to me. I have the first version of the 2-stroke so they my have changed something to gain some horse since then. Some the factory numbers of 52 for the 300 and 47 for the 450 sound reasonable and believeable to me. As for the 68 hp for the 450 with different mapping I think it can be done. Look at the cannondales. The base model puts out 33 and the moto is 39 and with a little more maping change and relocating the fuel injectors and light head mods you can get the moto up to 52-55 hp. That's 13-16 more horse than the factory settings. I don't know what is involved in the stage 3 tuning that they are doing on the GasGas 450 and how restrictive the exhaust is. But I can see the 450 putting out 62-68 hp with a some mods. Remember if you have enough money anything is possible.
Mike
Posted by: lt250r91
Trx440
I'll talk to my dealer and see if we can work out a deal to go and dyno a 450 in stock form and then do the stage 3 set-up that Leeroy is talking about and see what the dyno has. This will all be done at GT Thunder if the dealer and GT Thunder agrees to it.
Leeroy I'll need to know any details on what the stage 3 includes and if is available to Don at Race Ready Cycles to he could test it on GT Thunder's dyno.
I like I said this is if I can get these guys to agree on doing it, since I don't own one of the 450's and can promise that I will happen, but I can ask and let it go from there. If it does happen I'll post the results ASAP and if it doesn't I might buy one of the 450's at the end of the season for next year. I'll keep everyone posted.
Thanks for all the info and thnaks in advance to leeroy for share all and any info on the GasGas quads.
Mike
GNCC #265
Posted by: lt250r91
I talked to my dealer about the supposed GasGas 450 getting 68 HP with a stage 3 kit. He wasn't sure if the HP was right, but he did say that dealers are doing a stage 3 kit on the bikes and it does put out more power. He also said that the kit includes a cam, mapping, and maybe some other stuff. He wasn't real sure about all the details of the kit since he hasn't even order one in yet. I'll sure with mapping, cam, and pipe system 68 hp is a possiblity. If and when I get all the details of the kit I'll post it for everyone.
Mike
Posted by: lt250r91
I agree with you. I think you'd need some major cash to get the claimed 68 hp at the rear wheels on a quad. Maybe mid 50's to low 60's on the dirtbike is possible. I'm am only quoting what dealers have told me. Look at it this way the GasGas spec sheet on the 300 quad says 49.4 hp and mine dyno at 42.7. I've been told the 49.4 is the spec for the dirtbike and that sounds about right since the quad will lose some power. So maybe the 450 dirtbike with this stage 3 kit can push close to the claimed 68. Like I said earlier I don't know all the details or even the cost of this stage 3 kit that Leeroy is talking about. When someone does find out and post the info, maybe it will clear this up. The best way is in a dyno sheet. That will tell all. I'm not saying it can or can't be done. We just need all the facts and a dyno to prove who is right and whose wrong.
Posted by: spence2442
HEY EMAIL ME SOME PICS OF THE NEW FRT END ON THE GAS GAS.. THANKS JEFF
JEFF@GIFFININTERIOR.COM
Posted by: JackStriker
Does anyone know where I can find a review of the Gas Gas 450 quad bike. Or better still has anyone got one and can let me know how it is. I understand that there is not many about. I am living in Ibiza - Spain and have only seen the 300cc 2 stroker!!
Cheers for any help
Posted by: Hickspeed
I think this quad is gonna to be a big hit and should smoke the dale's, kawisuzki's, EXer's.
I'm in cali and the local dealer has 300's but no 450 but they are on there way soon.
Posted by: Hickspeed
And no more jetting,Just put a trinity pipe on it and go racing
Posted by: Hickspeed
Who know's what HOnda and yamaha may have in store to compete with all this new competition on a race level,hopefully we will see more involvment from factories in this sport soon.
Posted by: Hickspeed
I'm more into competitive mx ,tt racing so the raptor isn't even in my category
Posted by: kidsatvracing
Trinity has a pipe for the Gas Gas 450?
Posted by: leeroy
sorry guys but you are all wrong about the power output on both quads. unless it is differant in the states . im a dealer for the quads the 300 out of the crate is putting out 52bhp at the wheels the 450is putting out 47bhp. now the beauty of the 450 is that as it is fuiel injection it means that you can plug in the labtop. unfortubatly not everyone can do this as you have to buy the program from gas gas. i have it and my number one rider this year has just got his bike taken upyo a stage 3 tune with about twenty minutes of plain around on the computer i have brought the bike up to almost 60 bhp. he has ridden 690 rqaptor ex and all that stuff and still is amazed of the power of yhe 450. as for the shocks the 450 frame is slightly differant then the 300 with a little bit of extra strength here aqnd there to allow for the extra weight the shocks are not the wide body that on the 300 but they are 2 inches longer. even at it softest setting we have been unable to bottom them out on a motocross track. i think the 300 has been updated to the new shock although i wil not know until next week as i have another lod coming in. any question gimme a shout.ref 450img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif" border="0">img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-sad.gif" border="0">
Posted by: leeroy
mike,
it was the factory dyno in spain that showed me exectly what the bikes were putting out. as for the diagnostics its magnetti marelli but you can only get it if your a gas gas dealer and only direct from the factory at the minute but im sure that will change in time. just to let you know i am waiting on a 450 coming tomorrow one of our race bikes it has been brought up to a stage 3 tune and after speaking to gas gas today they have told me that it is now putting out 68 bhp at the wheels. ill no when i get it back cause the first thing im doing is taking it to a man to dyno just to see for myself. any other queries gimme a shout.
regards
Posted by: leeroy
believe me thats what the factory has told me. the bike is getting put on the dyno next week so you can see it in black and white and then draw up you own conclusion.
Posted by: Slowride
I heard the Gas-Gas 450 was pretty fast....
