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Originally Posted by duster
Thank you... I read it all and it was all good reading to me.
I tend to side with sportrider though... as that seems most in line with other reading I have done.
(#1) I'm one of the ones who thinks they shouldn't be able to call it synthetic unless the base is all PAO or Ester or a combo. I understand the group III is pretty good and can rival these in some things... but so can some really well refined dino labeled oils.
Anyways, it just causes too much confusion in my opinion. So now I would like to see oils advertised by the grouping and percentage. That's the fair and right way.
As for the Rotella syn... I really think there is little difference in base quality compared to the regular Rotella. Lots of folks like and have good results with the Rotella syn.... it's just does not impress me much in a few applications. In my opinion it does not 'cling' very well... and I think a lot of that is because in some applications it shears down from an SAE40 pretty quick.
(#2) It faded fast in the Kawi, and the sight glass allowed me to see it took air entrainment pretty quick too. Came out like water almost too. The 15w40 Rotella has proven to be more stable.... and I think the bottom line is that the base is similar in quality, but heavier, and it contains less viscosity index improvers... 35 is a much larger range to cover than 25.
I'm thinking that for motorcycle use, a fellow would have to go to a much more expensive synthetic oil to get a much better oil than the Rotella 15w40.
Amsoil Motorcycle, Mobil 1 Motorcycle test well... 20w50 testing better than 10w40 on both... and 15w50 Mobil 1 seems to do well too. (#3) But I don't remember if Maxima or Bel Ray or some of the others were included... I'll have to check.
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Well, I have tested, and also studied reports, etc, at length and in detail (while bored) and I've come up with a few opinions so far from above...
(#1) I still feel the same about the grouping... I think it should have to specify, etc. However, if Mobil 1 is in fact not a "true" synthetic anymore, I can't say as I can see a real big difference in them test-wise. So I can kind of see how Castrol was able to sway a court of law over synthetic labeling. More in #3.
(#2) I've stuck with the theory and tested, upping viscosity and lowering viscosity index improvers, and I can tell a certain marked difference in each step I have taken. Simply put, the engine, and probably mostly the trans just beats these oils... and the ones with lower viscosities, viscosity indexes, and high levels of viscosity index improvers just get beat down faster. And I think a lot of in occurs in the trans.... and as an end result is also why I feel the change in the trans and have been using it as a gauge as to when to drain. I think I'm feeling the viscosity index improvers (polymers) starting to break down in the trans and reduce it's superb feel.
(#3) Maxima and BelRay were included in the tests.
However, please note that I have not seen testing on the full-syn Maxima... Only the Maxum4 syn-blend.
Both performed well, rather it was 10w40 or 20w50 being tested. However, neither seemed to show any significant advantage over the rest.
Comparing 10w40's the Maxima and Bel-Ray seem to test on average 5th and 6th respectively when considering ALL aspects.
However, I was really shocked to see several industry standard (ASTM D-1748) tests for rust protection, and how many motorcycle oils failed. Bel-Ray was one of them... as was Castrol, Vavoline, Pennzoil, Royal Purple, Golden Spectro and Motul.
That was pretty shocking to me.
Especially considering motorcyles and ATV's tend to be left sitting a good bit.
Therefore, none of those will make their way into my engines.
Moving back to the Maxima now, it does seem to be a VERY GOOD oil. Like I said though, about a 4th place finisher. The quality that does stand out the highest is it's HEAVY dose of ZINC. It's higher than anything I have seen. But yet it's about a 5th place finisher again in wear protection.
It's a top performer, tieing in gear performance, oxidation stability, and rust protection.
It is weak in shear stability, viscosity index, volitility, and also TBN.
Those things are what make it place behind the other 4.
However, 2 of those 4 fail the rust test, so to me it gets a solid 3rd for 10w40... right behind Mobil 1 and Amsoil.
The weakness in shear stability, viscosity index, volitility and TBN are obviously offset a great deal by the HIGH zinc content. Otherwise it would be a relatively s#itty oil if you think about it honestly. Not a real strong syn-blend without the zinc.
In any event, it certainly makes me wonder if "they" fear the comparison with the Ultra4 or Extra4?
Know of any test data floating out there so I may compare myself?